Enola's Story
A 16 page forum thread about her progress in foster care
Enola is coming to stay....
by Spardo » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:05 pm
...for a while at least, and may be longer, but in any case I will have first refusal if any other prospective adopters apply.
I took Tosca along to see how she would react to being sniffed, she is a very private dog and does not appreciate any animals other than humans.
Both Tosca and Enola were on long leads and met quietly and there were no problems. Tosca followed her usual pattern by ignoring Enola who sniffed front and back rather respectfully I thought. I watched Tosca's lip for the tell tale twitch which can precede a snap, but none came. Enola tried one 'play bow' which all canines do, including wolves, to signify a desire to play while offering no threat. Tosca declined and Enola desisted, she got the message.
But she was terrified of me and tried to get as far away as possible, I knew she was very timid around humans but this is going to be challenging. She tried to hide behind Tiffany's back, she works there and was doing the initial introduction. But then Tiffany handed the lead to me and left the field leaving the 3 of us alone. Already sitting on the ground, I went into a full length prone position on the grass and avoided looking at her directly. Initially circling while I tried to avoid Tosca, who was standing above my head, getting tangled she eventually deigned to take a piece of pork skin from my fingers, then retreated. Shortly afterwards she gingerly came and touched my fingers with the tip of her nose.
Enough for today, we went our separate ways and for me to report back to La Presidente and get the go ahead for her to come to us. The email got lost in the ether so one day later, once received, it was approved.
I will collect her in the morning, I want a full day with her to get her accustomed to the house and us before we shut the doors for the night. As soon as we get back I will collect Tosca and the 3 of us will take our normal walk so that she can start to get used to all the rdv points where treats are dispersed. This is the way with all my dogs so that, unleashed, they will never go too far away from me and always know where I will be. Then she will be on the long lead in the garden till she knows all the boundaries.
Report tomorrow, maybe photos if possible. Can't wait.
by Veem » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:18 pm
How exciting Spardo. I do hope this works out for you all.
There can't be that many Tiffanys around. Is her second name S***p****? If so, I met her years ago at the dispersal sale of a herd of Arabian horses down in Dordogne. I remember her as a lovely, dedicated person.
by Stompie » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:29 pm
Good luck, I hope everything goes well when Enola moves in.
What is her history? It sounds like humans haven't been very nice to her up to now.
by jsks » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:03 pm
I hope it works out for you.
It would be rewarding to improve Enola's life for her.
by Flaneur » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:09 pm
Too soon for photos I suppose?
by Spardo » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:31 pm
Thank you all for the kind remarks and I'll try to answer in one go. She is not reported to have suffered at the hands of humans but, along with the rest of her siblings was rejected and not fed by her mother.
She has been living with an elderly Collie and a cat but is nervous of all people she doesn't know. Her recent home was in a town and she is fearful of loud noise and general city sounds, sirens, horns, engines etc. She loves all animals and children but is wary of teenagers, perhaps too lively and noisy. Regarding her nervousness around me, it may not be so bad as she has known Tiff, Andy and Sharon for only a week or so and is perfectly comfortable around them.
She has apparently been used to running with her owner attached to her bike, I thought good news, perfect with me and the trike but then thought, perhaps not, difficult to find a safe stretch where she may not be alarmed on a public road, and I don't think the trike will be suited to the forest.
Viv, I do think Tiff is the person you know, I don't know her surname but she used to be involved with Phoenix some years ago and now seems to live semi-permanently at Sharon and Andy's in her campervan. I'll mention you when I see them tomorrow.
Photos? Yes. Tomorrow? Maybe. I may have to have all my concentration on her with no hands free for the camera. But certainly soon.
It was Tiffany who said she couldn't get the word Ebola out of her mind. That didn't occur to me, my first thought was that how unfortunate to be named after the mother of the pilot who dropped the H bomb on Hiroshima.
But in fact that helps me because I keep calling her in my mind Elona and I have to sing the first line of a pop song of some years ago by OMD, 'Enola Gay, you should have stayed at home yesterday'.
Of course, being French, I think, she will have been called Enola and if we do keep her it will probably evolve into Nola. As a rule I don't approve of name changes for dogs, I leave it up to them, and if they answer to a certain way, then that is it. I once adopted a beautiful Lurcher boy, 90% Greyhound/10% Saluki, from Phoenix and when I asked his name they told me Lurch. I was horrified but asked him, and he responded straight away, so Lurch it was and after a short time it didn't seem so bad.
by Spardo » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:32 pm
Collected Enola this morning but Sharon had to bundle her into the cage, she didn't want to go. Once in she soon settled down after a while of quiet whimpering but not far from home, the stress that I could see in the drops of saliva became too much and she vomited. Only a slimy sort of liquid though, easy to clean up and a welcome indication that she hasn't eaten yet.
We hooked her to my 10 metre lunge rein before she went in the cage so that I wouldn't have to alarm her further at journey's end by reaching in to clip her on. It worked fine, I just made sure I had hold of the loop before opening the cage door and moving out of sight.
Then a revelation, this timid and fearful dog of 2 days ago who wouldn't come near me, soon came close and, within a few minutes accepted my hand stroking her head. The only time she was startled enough to bolt was when she heard the deep bark of a dog higher up the hill and didn't know where it came from.
Now, as I type, she is sitting beside me, sometimes lifting my arm with her nose and then, when receiving the demanded caresse, placing both paws on my arm.
Sadly we didn't have the walk, I put Tosca in the rear of the car and indicated to Enola to climb into the cage. She declined and I didn't want to force her so nobody gets a walk today. Definitely tomorrow though. They both ate their croquettes in different parts of adjoining rooms, no problems there.
Anyway, a few photos lifted from the video I did of Enola exploring the immediate garden. I will put the video itself on You Tube later but, as it is 7 minutes long, might edit it a bit.
by Spardo » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:05 pm
...for a while at least, and may be longer, but in any case I will have first refusal if any other prospective adopters apply.
I took Tosca along to see how she would react to being sniffed, she is a very private dog and does not appreciate any animals other than humans.
Both Tosca and Enola were on long leads and met quietly and there were no problems. Tosca followed her usual pattern by ignoring Enola who sniffed front and back rather respectfully I thought. I watched Tosca's lip for the tell tale twitch which can precede a snap, but none came. Enola tried one 'play bow' which all canines do, including wolves, to signify a desire to play while offering no threat. Tosca declined and Enola desisted, she got the message.
But she was terrified of me and tried to get as far away as possible, I knew she was very timid around humans but this is going to be challenging. She tried to hide behind Tiffany's back, she works there and was doing the initial introduction. But then Tiffany handed the lead to me and left the field leaving the 3 of us alone. Already sitting on the ground, I went into a full length prone position on the grass and avoided looking at her directly. Initially circling while I tried to avoid Tosca, who was standing above my head, getting tangled she eventually deigned to take a piece of pork skin from my fingers, then retreated. Shortly afterwards she gingerly came and touched my fingers with the tip of her nose.
Enough for today, we went our separate ways and for me to report back to La Presidente and get the go ahead for her to come to us. The email got lost in the ether so one day later, once received, it was approved.
I will collect her in the morning, I want a full day with her to get her accustomed to the house and us before we shut the doors for the night. As soon as we get back I will collect Tosca and the 3 of us will take our normal walk so that she can start to get used to all the rdv points where treats are dispersed. This is the way with all my dogs so that, unleashed, they will never go too far away from me and always know where I will be. Then she will be on the long lead in the garden till she knows all the boundaries.
Report tomorrow, maybe photos if possible. Can't wait.
by Veem » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:18 pm
How exciting Spardo. I do hope this works out for you all.
There can't be that many Tiffanys around. Is her second name S***p****? If so, I met her years ago at the dispersal sale of a herd of Arabian horses down in Dordogne. I remember her as a lovely, dedicated person.
by Stompie » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:29 pm
Good luck, I hope everything goes well when Enola moves in.
What is her history? It sounds like humans haven't been very nice to her up to now.
by jsks » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:03 pm
I hope it works out for you.
It would be rewarding to improve Enola's life for her.
by Flaneur » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:09 pm
Too soon for photos I suppose?
by Spardo » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:31 pm
Thank you all for the kind remarks and I'll try to answer in one go. She is not reported to have suffered at the hands of humans but, along with the rest of her siblings was rejected and not fed by her mother.
She has been living with an elderly Collie and a cat but is nervous of all people she doesn't know. Her recent home was in a town and she is fearful of loud noise and general city sounds, sirens, horns, engines etc. She loves all animals and children but is wary of teenagers, perhaps too lively and noisy. Regarding her nervousness around me, it may not be so bad as she has known Tiff, Andy and Sharon for only a week or so and is perfectly comfortable around them.
She has apparently been used to running with her owner attached to her bike, I thought good news, perfect with me and the trike but then thought, perhaps not, difficult to find a safe stretch where she may not be alarmed on a public road, and I don't think the trike will be suited to the forest.
Viv, I do think Tiff is the person you know, I don't know her surname but she used to be involved with Phoenix some years ago and now seems to live semi-permanently at Sharon and Andy's in her campervan. I'll mention you when I see them tomorrow.
Photos? Yes. Tomorrow? Maybe. I may have to have all my concentration on her with no hands free for the camera. But certainly soon.
It was Tiffany who said she couldn't get the word Ebola out of her mind. That didn't occur to me, my first thought was that how unfortunate to be named after the mother of the pilot who dropped the H bomb on Hiroshima.
But in fact that helps me because I keep calling her in my mind Elona and I have to sing the first line of a pop song of some years ago by OMD, 'Enola Gay, you should have stayed at home yesterday'.
Of course, being French, I think, she will have been called Enola and if we do keep her it will probably evolve into Nola. As a rule I don't approve of name changes for dogs, I leave it up to them, and if they answer to a certain way, then that is it. I once adopted a beautiful Lurcher boy, 90% Greyhound/10% Saluki, from Phoenix and when I asked his name they told me Lurch. I was horrified but asked him, and he responded straight away, so Lurch it was and after a short time it didn't seem so bad.
by Spardo » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:32 pm
Collected Enola this morning but Sharon had to bundle her into the cage, she didn't want to go. Once in she soon settled down after a while of quiet whimpering but not far from home, the stress that I could see in the drops of saliva became too much and she vomited. Only a slimy sort of liquid though, easy to clean up and a welcome indication that she hasn't eaten yet.
We hooked her to my 10 metre lunge rein before she went in the cage so that I wouldn't have to alarm her further at journey's end by reaching in to clip her on. It worked fine, I just made sure I had hold of the loop before opening the cage door and moving out of sight.
Then a revelation, this timid and fearful dog of 2 days ago who wouldn't come near me, soon came close and, within a few minutes accepted my hand stroking her head. The only time she was startled enough to bolt was when she heard the deep bark of a dog higher up the hill and didn't know where it came from.
Now, as I type, she is sitting beside me, sometimes lifting my arm with her nose and then, when receiving the demanded caresse, placing both paws on my arm.
Sadly we didn't have the walk, I put Tosca in the rear of the car and indicated to Enola to climb into the cage. She declined and I didn't want to force her so nobody gets a walk today. Definitely tomorrow though. They both ate their croquettes in different parts of adjoining rooms, no problems there.
Anyway, a few photos lifted from the video I did of Enola exploring the immediate garden. I will put the video itself on You Tube later but, as it is 7 minutes long, might edit it a bit.
by Gardengirl » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:39 pm
Enola looks lovely and it sounds as though she’ll fit in very well at your place with you. Excellent.
by Spardo
And now she has settled to sleep on the mattress put there for her alongside the open cage with Tosca in, doing the same.
by jsks » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:02 pm
Brilliant. She's a lucky dog.
Flaneur » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:06 pm
I think I'm in love!
by Veem » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:28 pm
Hopefully, once she's slept on it, she'll realise she's in a good place and learn to trust in all that she's come to.
by Mrs Archy » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:17 pm
ah lovely photo and I'm sure she's going to have a lovely life with you and her other companions.
by Flaneur » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:27 pm
Pardon my ignorance, but is Enola a Doberman?
by Spardo » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:09 pm
She's a Beauceronne/Dobermann Cross, one of the reasons I chose her, I love Beaucies and I love Dobies, but with tails.
You're in love? Nothing to what I feel, I can't believe this dog who has so completely trashed her reported image. Nervous and jumpy yes, but a real pot de colle (gluepot), she hardly leaves my side, if she is not following me she is walking ahead trying to interpret my direction. She sits alongside me at the computer, nudges my arm for a stroke, then places both paws on it.
And to top it all, when I transferred myself to the settee in the salle, feet up on footstool, she gradually worked her way onto my lap, ending totally curled up on it. Only 2 other dogs have done that, my Greyhound, Lira and, you've guessed it, my Beauceronne, Ramona. Both of those would climb up on the footstool between my legs and lie full length along my body with head on my chest gazing in adoration into my eyes. Yes, you may feel a bit queasy at this point but what man can resist such treatment?
She is a foster, yes, but I reckon she has to do something very wrong to avoid remaining.
Anyway, I must calm down, My video, unedited because the bits I would have normally cut were too small to bother with. So if you want to spend another 7 minutes of your life doing not very much, here it is:
Enola looks lovely and it sounds as though she’ll fit in very well at your place with you. Excellent.
by Spardo
And now she has settled to sleep on the mattress put there for her alongside the open cage with Tosca in, doing the same.
by jsks » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:02 pm
Brilliant. She's a lucky dog.
Flaneur » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:06 pm
I think I'm in love!
by Veem » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:28 pm
Hopefully, once she's slept on it, she'll realise she's in a good place and learn to trust in all that she's come to.
by Mrs Archy » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:17 pm
ah lovely photo and I'm sure she's going to have a lovely life with you and her other companions.
by Flaneur » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:27 pm
Pardon my ignorance, but is Enola a Doberman?
by Spardo » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:09 pm
She's a Beauceronne/Dobermann Cross, one of the reasons I chose her, I love Beaucies and I love Dobies, but with tails.
You're in love? Nothing to what I feel, I can't believe this dog who has so completely trashed her reported image. Nervous and jumpy yes, but a real pot de colle (gluepot), she hardly leaves my side, if she is not following me she is walking ahead trying to interpret my direction. She sits alongside me at the computer, nudges my arm for a stroke, then places both paws on it.
And to top it all, when I transferred myself to the settee in the salle, feet up on footstool, she gradually worked her way onto my lap, ending totally curled up on it. Only 2 other dogs have done that, my Greyhound, Lira and, you've guessed it, my Beauceronne, Ramona. Both of those would climb up on the footstool between my legs and lie full length along my body with head on my chest gazing in adoration into my eyes. Yes, you may feel a bit queasy at this point but what man can resist such treatment?
She is a foster, yes, but I reckon she has to do something very wrong to avoid remaining.
Anyway, I must calm down, My video, unedited because the bits I would have normally cut were too small to bother with. So if you want to spend another 7 minutes of your life doing not very much, here it is:
by Flaneur » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:22 pm
Well, that 7 minutes flew by!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who tells his pet what's going on in a calm voice. Timmy now gets quite eager to watch fireworks: straight onto the window-sill.
by jsks » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:37 pm
What a lucky dog to have found such a caring home.
by Spardo » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:41 pm
Thank you both.
by SW31girl » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:25 am
I’m pleased for you both. When it works well it usually works very well. Said as a cat and chicken owner who spoils all of them!
by lindal1000 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:48 am
She looks lovely. There are several beauceron at the dog rescue and they are lovely dogs. Never seen one quite as calm as Enola but I guess it's early days and she is still finding her feet. Her tail was still well and truly between her legs...when that starts to wag you know you'll be seeing the 'real' dog. She could be a bit older than a year, but maybe not. Enjoy her.
by Veem » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:02 am
She's a lovely looking dog - inside and out.
by Stompie » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:54 am
She's beautiful. She looks as if the has the best of both breeds.
Lucky girl to have found you and lucky you to have found her.
by Loup-garou » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:25 pm
Stompie wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:54 am
She's beautiful. She looks as if the has the best of both breeds.
Lucky girl to have found you and lucky you to have found her.I endorse that. I hope you all have a happy life together.
by Spardo » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:56 pm
Kind thoughts and thank you all.
I have been looking at her documents and she was born in April last year, so about 14 months old. She is calm but can be lively, since this morning's first outing in the garden on the extendable lead I decided that she was ready for the garden without one. So Tosca gets her dog flap back and Enola tends to rush in and out for quick visits on a regular basis.
I had to force her into the car this morning, the field uncut is still too long in grass, 1.5m, for us to walk in and so I was determined that we would go down to the river field to run and walk.
But even that short journey and the reward of a good run is not enough to avoid the extreme stress she had, drooling at the mouth an obvious sign, so I won't be doing it again. If only that bloody farmer would get his finger, or rather his tractor, out and cut the grass. He is always the last to do so in the district.
The sooner I can get her recalling from the end of the 10 metre lunge faultlessly, the sooner she can be free to run offlead in the field. I know it won't be long, she is very receptive to my call and sharp commands such as 'stop' and 'here', of course assis (I do make all my dogs bi-lingual) produces an instant response too. Even 'wait' before going for the food bowl to eat has improved after only 3 meals. By tonight or tomorrow I am sure she won't need the accompanying hand signal.
by jsks » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:33 pm
Sounds like speeded up puppy trading there, Spardo.
Do you ever use a whistle for recall? Our 13 week old (today!) lab puppy knows that 3 peeps on the whistle means a treat. Her first run in the fields today with her big brother and she came on the whistle every time. I'm so proud of her. Next thing is to train her that one peep means, stop and sit. We have a different toned whistle for each dog. The big guy knows the difference, the little one reacts to either - she'll learn.
by Spardo » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:46 pm
What kind of whistles do you use? Long ago, with a deaf dog, I bought a ref's whistle, but it was only moderately successful.
I have since looked at those professional ones that are largely in the mouth, like the shepherds use, but have never taken the plunge. Such a variety of reviews.
With Tosca, who is almost deaf, and with other deaf ones, I have used hand/arm signals, but Tosca's problem now is her sight is failing and, at 100 metres she will only see me if I jump up and down and wave both arms in the air vigorously.
A whistle I am sure would work with Enola as she has already responded a couple times when she was concentrating on something else. So I would be interested in your, variously toned, ones.
by jsks » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:54 pm
I bought it in Germany 15 years ago. It is made of wood and you can blow either end but one end has a greater diameter and a deeper tone. The big dog works off the high-pitched tone and ignores the lower one. Currently the little dog reacts to both but the lower tone will become hers.
It's useful here where we have high crops and saves the embarrassment of shouting! We use a very simple regime: 1 beep = stop and sit, 3 beeps means come. I'm not sure even the cleverest dog could understand further instructions using 2,4 or more peeps. That's when I think you need a variable pitched whistle for working dogs like sheep dogs.
We chose 1 peep and 3 peeps rather than 1 and 2 just to be sure that the come command sounded significantly different to the stop one.
It broke a few weeks ago when I dropped it on the tiles. Superglued.
Not been able to find a similar one but if I can I shall get another. So much more convenient than having 2 different whistles.
by Spardo » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:59 pm
That is ingenious, I'll have a look and see if I can find one. Thanks.
by jsks » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:00 pm
Similar whistle:
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005DL87L ... 4EbNNJRDGF
by Spardo » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:48 pm
Ordered. Is the lady with the Hitler salute included, the one training for the Luftwaffe?
by jsks » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:55 pm
I wish...
by Flaneur » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:23 pm
How about this one? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clix-Two-Ton ... Sw4YZezokD
by Flaneur » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:23 pm
or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WOODEN-TWO-T ... Sw-zdewm79
by Spardo » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:55 pm
Already bought the Amazon one, cheaper than the others, I hope it doesn't mean a drop in quality. we shall see.
by Flaneur » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:04 pm
Beat me to it!
by suein56 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:43 am
We haven't had an update .. we need to know how the lovely Enola is getting on .. and especially how Tosca is taking all this potential upset to her routine ?
by Spardo
Ooops sorry .
Tosca simply ignores her as she does with all other dogs but, although unlike Boss, Enola isn't dominant she is young and lively and, like all youngsters does not fully appreciate the care which must be taken with oldies. So, although she does show respect to Tosca she has accidentally pushed her out of the way once or twice. The most serious was in the river field yesterday when she became excited and wanted to join Tosca who had broken into a run. She arrived rather too quickly and, brakes or steering failing, accidentally knocked poor Tosca right of her feet. Unharmed, Tosca did manage to untangle her legs and regain her feet but for a few metres she limped a little on one leg. I checked it out, nothing damaged and she soon was fine.
Enola is very intelligent and quick to learn. She sits of course, bolt upright back straight as a rod (I'll try and get a picture), and now waits for the command (bon appetit ) before moving to her bowl of food after it is put down. She no longer has to be stopped from rushing straight to the slower eating (but first starter being the senior member) Tosca and even when she had to be it was at command, not physically.
I thought I heard the combine in the field yesterday so took Enola through the forest on the extendable to see, I was wrong and intended to return the same way, but she wanted to continue following exactly our normal route (by scent I suppose as the track is covered over with long grass) once or twice leaping high in the air to see where she was going.
When we walked back down the lane with the lead shortened and locked, for the first time I saw that she was a puller. So much of interest to investigate but this is not how we will continue, so today after Tosca and I returned from the river (no Enola, she wouldn't get in the car), I gave her her first 'a pied' training. Only 5 minutes to start with but already she was getting the idea. Might take a little bit longer on the lane, but not much I am sure.
This rapid learning of hers gave me an idea. perhaps I can overcome her fear of the car little by little. If I lift her into the open back, not the cage, and immediately give her a treat before she jumps back out again, and then repeat over and over on successive days, it might work in time for her necessary trip to the vet on the 23rd for her sterilisation op. And maybe sooner than that she will come down the river again with us. I am dreading the vet visit, normally he takes the dogs into a cage in the morning but doesn't operate till the afternoon. Once before with my Ramona he agreed to operate immediately while I waited. This was for a different reason, on her first visit she growled and showed her teeth to him when he went to get her, so didn't do it. The 2nd time both Andy and I went and lifted her, uncomplaining, onto the table. I may ask if we can do that again with Enola. She would hate being shut in that cage all day, although unlike Ramona, she wouldn't threaten him. He isn't very brave so maybe he will agree.
A bit of a scare when Tosca and I went down to the river. Yesterday after I had been out on the trike I couldn't get back in through the veranda door because she had pulled the handle down, which locks it. So today, after pushing it to again I took the precaution of locking the front door from the outside with the key. This because I worried that she might drop that handle too, but that opens, not closes, it. Off we went leaving the front gate open but as we drove back in, there was Enola outside the gate and running back in ahead of us. A big relief that she has no intention of running away, but how did she get out? Went round the back and there was the veranda slider open just wide enough for a slim Beaucie to get through. She had prised it open with her nose. Fran, still in bed, hadn't noticed and only said that Enola had come to her initially to have a conversation. No doubt telling her what a clever girl she was.
So that door has to be locked too now.
by exile » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:47 pm
Animals, who'd have 'em?
apart from thee and me.
Just watched the video. I'm not a dog person but that is 7 minutes I don't mind having spent.
Thanks for the update as well.
by Flaneur » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:58 pm
Spardo, I don't want to fall into the trap of suggesting you treat a dog like I'd treat a cat and remembering that when our last car was delivered, while the driver was explaining how it worked, he got the surprise of his day when Timmy jumped in through the open window, but would it be possible to try to take advantage of her natural curiosity by hiding one of her toys in the back of the car, and providing a box so she could climb in and explore?
And, thinking ahead in case we ever get a dog, is that the sort of approach that might work generally with a dog?
by Spardo » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:00 pm
It is, with some dogs. At the moment her favourite/only toy is a bright green very heavy duty rubber ball that I bought for Boss, but I don't think she would go looking for it if she couldn't see it.
We have just completed the first gentle training session on that score though.
I had a bag of treats hanging round my neck, pieces of Cantal Jeune, opened the hatch of the car, she followed me of course.
Then I went to pick her up the way I pick all dogs up if possible, left arm through the front legs hand supporting the chest, right arm right under the belly as close to the hind legs as possible (this is obviously easier with females ) and then lift.
She saw what I was about to do and sank to the ground. Showed her a treat and she rose and this time I was able to complete the manoeuvre and gently place her in the back of the car. I had to push against her trying to get out and eventually managed to hold her, get her to sit, and give her the treat. Then I stepped back and said ok out you come, and she leaped out.
She did not go away though so I did it again, she wasn't happy but didn't go to ground this time and I picked her up and put her in the back again. Again she pushed but not so hard this time and I was able to get her to sit on command with only a light touch of my hand on her flank. I gave her the treat and, as she was still sitting, made a very big fuss of her, silly high voice and all.
Then I stepped back and indicated out again. Lesson over for today, but I feel we have made some progress just in that short space of time.
As far as taking her for the walk is concerned she will have to remain without any restriction while I close the lid, and that may not be soon. We'll see. Perhaps tomorrow I will set up the video on a tripod nearby just in case we get it right.
Here is a video I shot 3 years ago after delivering a nervous Dobie, Jarro, to Sharon and Andy. I should say that Andy, a big strong bloke had just tried and failed to get Jarro into the cage and called for the diminutive Sharon to assist.
It may look brutal but you will notice after the first attempt she made a big fuss of him and wiped clean all the stress induced foam from his mouth and nose. The second attempt was quite easy after she had rapidly turned and brought him out after the first. On the 3rd attempt he actually went through the door before her. The finish with the crouch and more fuss and cuddle made him putty in her hands. They had no more trouble getting him into his cage after that because he had the confidence that it was not a one way trip. I think I rightly called it a masterclass at the time.
by Flaneur » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:12 pm
Haha, dogs can't dig their claws in! You have it easy
One thing that lady did that I'd do with a cat is not make a big deal of it, but remain determined. It must inspire the dog to have confidence in her.
by Veem » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:56 pm
Spardo wrote:-
As far as taking her for the walk is concerned she will have to remain without any restriction while I close the lid, and that may not be soon.
We had the same problem when we adopted Blaze and Blitz who were almost 2 year old brothers and had only been used to travelling in the back of a saloon car, which makes it far easier to control the load and offload. Travelling in our estate car, meant we had to be certain they would wait for that rear door to be closed safely, and opened without them jumping out. We live in the country where it wouldn't have grave consequences if they didn't do this perfectly every time, but if we went to town we had to be sure they were safe and would not jump out the moment the hatchback was opening. So they had several short training sessions to enter on command and then stay in a sit whilst the door closed. Then, from outside the car we would ask (command) them to sit and wait until the door was fully open before coming out. It was a lesson quickly learnt. They were 1/2 Lab so very motivated by treats! As Pat Parelli (horse trainer) would say - it takes the time it takes.
by Spardo » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:00 pm
Flaneur wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:12 pm
Haha, dogs can't dig their claws in! You have it easy
One thing that lady did that I'd do with a cat is not make a big deal of it, but remain determined. It must inspire the dog to have confidence in her.
Think you've got that the wrong way round, dogs' claws are permanently out, it is just a case of how long they are, but a cat's can be retracted at least.
Yes, she is very determined, is Sharon. She is always the first line of defence between the 2 of them.
Not long ago I brought a Dobermann from near Marseille that had been confined in a flat. The owner and his son insisted on loading him as they said he was unmanageable and possibly dangerous. Nearly got themselves run over as they struggled as we were on a main road, only a lady bus driver saved the situation by realising, stopping her bus and blocking the traffic. But the dog had a muzzle and I had instructions not to remove it.
Judging him by his attitude to me I did remove it to give him water but replaced it afterwards and did pass on to Sharon and Andy what had been said. Andy stood back while Sharon, wearing a thick arm muff, and I brought him out of the cage and into their premises. The muzzle was taken off and after only 5 minutes assessment, off came the muff as well. He was as good as gold and no trouble or threat at all.
I refer to my quote in another thread that the problem with most dogs is the top of the lead, not the bottom.
Spardo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:42 pm
Further training of Enola, for both entering staying in the car, the staying is the difficult bit at the moment. Also a short further session of walking to heel. I finished off with a little session with Tosca as she was hanging around watching the fun, but she really can't be bothered and in any case the big black youngster kept getting in the way.
My apologies for the length, around 9 minutes. Again I could have cut it drastically by editing but I wanted to record all the failures before the small successes. Patience and petit a petit are the watchwords.
Haha, dogs can't dig their claws in! You have it easy
One thing that lady did that I'd do with a cat is not make a big deal of it, but remain determined. It must inspire the dog to have confidence in her.
by Veem » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:56 pm
Spardo wrote:-
As far as taking her for the walk is concerned she will have to remain without any restriction while I close the lid, and that may not be soon.
We had the same problem when we adopted Blaze and Blitz who were almost 2 year old brothers and had only been used to travelling in the back of a saloon car, which makes it far easier to control the load and offload. Travelling in our estate car, meant we had to be certain they would wait for that rear door to be closed safely, and opened without them jumping out. We live in the country where it wouldn't have grave consequences if they didn't do this perfectly every time, but if we went to town we had to be sure they were safe and would not jump out the moment the hatchback was opening. So they had several short training sessions to enter on command and then stay in a sit whilst the door closed. Then, from outside the car we would ask (command) them to sit and wait until the door was fully open before coming out. It was a lesson quickly learnt. They were 1/2 Lab so very motivated by treats! As Pat Parelli (horse trainer) would say - it takes the time it takes.
by Spardo » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:00 pm
Flaneur wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:12 pm
Haha, dogs can't dig their claws in! You have it easy
One thing that lady did that I'd do with a cat is not make a big deal of it, but remain determined. It must inspire the dog to have confidence in her.
Think you've got that the wrong way round, dogs' claws are permanently out, it is just a case of how long they are, but a cat's can be retracted at least.
Yes, she is very determined, is Sharon. She is always the first line of defence between the 2 of them.
Not long ago I brought a Dobermann from near Marseille that had been confined in a flat. The owner and his son insisted on loading him as they said he was unmanageable and possibly dangerous. Nearly got themselves run over as they struggled as we were on a main road, only a lady bus driver saved the situation by realising, stopping her bus and blocking the traffic. But the dog had a muzzle and I had instructions not to remove it.
Judging him by his attitude to me I did remove it to give him water but replaced it afterwards and did pass on to Sharon and Andy what had been said. Andy stood back while Sharon, wearing a thick arm muff, and I brought him out of the cage and into their premises. The muzzle was taken off and after only 5 minutes assessment, off came the muff as well. He was as good as gold and no trouble or threat at all.
I refer to my quote in another thread that the problem with most dogs is the top of the lead, not the bottom.
Spardo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:42 pm
Further training of Enola, for both entering staying in the car, the staying is the difficult bit at the moment. Also a short further session of walking to heel. I finished off with a little session with Tosca as she was hanging around watching the fun, but she really can't be bothered and in any case the big black youngster kept getting in the way.
My apologies for the length, around 9 minutes. Again I could have cut it drastically by editing but I wanted to record all the failures before the small successes. Patience and petit a petit are the watchwords.
by Spardo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:42 pm
Further training of Enola, for both entering and staying in the car, the staying is the difficult bit at the moment. Also a short further session of walking to heel. I finished off with a little session with Tosca as she was hanging around watching the fun, but she really can't be bothered and in any case the big black youngster kept getting in the way.
My apologies for the length, around 9 minutes. Again I could have cut it drastically by editing but I wanted to record all the failures before the small successes. Patience and petit a petit are the watchwords.
by Nifty on Jun 15, 2020 8:49 pm
Enola Gay ?
by Spardo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:59 pm
A bit late to the party, Nifty, but yes, that connection has already been made.
It was Tiffany who said she couldn't get the word Ebola out of her mind. That didn't occur to me, my first thought was that how unfortunate to be named after the mother of the pilot who dropped the H bomb on Hiroshima.
But in fact that helps me because I keep calling her in my mind Elona and I have to sing the first line of a pop song of some years ago by OMD, 'Enola Gay, you should have stayed at home yesterday'.
by suein56 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:11 pm
E(nola) is making good progress .. ably aided and demonstrated by the very laid-backed Tosca.
Great
by Veem » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:18 pm
Whenever I have been training a horse or a dog, I've always found it so much easier with someone on the ground watching and giving me constant feedback. So I hope you won't mind a bit of feedback from me on that latest training session.
When you were teaching Enola this whole routine of entering the car and staying there, remember to break it down into tiny chunks and to reward every little chunk. Sometimes, after she'd entered the car and you asked her to sit, you didn't reward the sit but went straight on to ask her to stay. Perhaps you could ask for and reward a longer sit to reinforce the stay.
For the 'au pied', are you happy for her to go to heel on the left and/or the right? If I wasn't clear, perhaps she wasn't either. A vocal command backed up with a physical signal (which you did sometimes, but not consistently) could help her know where you want her to be.
But in such a short time Enola is doing so very well and you should be thrilled with the progress you have made with her.
Says she, who has never succeeded in training any dachsie she's ever had!
by jsks » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:23 pm
Enola sure is one lucky lady. She really seems to have taken to you and it's clear she wants to be part of your pack.
Respect.
by Spardo » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:29 am
Thank you to Sue and JSKS for the kind comments, also to Veem and I will answer your valid critique.
When you were teaching Enola this whole routine of entering the car and staying there, remember to break it down into tiny chunks and to reward every little chunk. Sometimes, after she'd entered the car and you asked her to sit, you didn't reward the sit but went straight on to ask her to stay. Perhaps you could ask for and reward a longer sit to reinforce the stay.
For the 'au pied', are you happy for her to go to heel on the left and/or the right? If I wasn't clear, perhaps she wasn't either. A vocal command backed up with a physical signal (which you did sometimes, but not consistently) could help her know where you want her to be.
Re entering and staying. I agree about the small chunks, I did start off by rewarding the sit, but then in order to take it further, I decided to wait for the stay. Perhaps I was trying to go a bit too fast and next time I will slow it down a bit.
No, I am not too happy about her switching sides on the au pied, it is better to do that exercise 'on the square' but as you can see, there isn't room there. Also, because I was trying to get the whole thing on video I couldn't use the full length available, which would have been better. The 2nd hand and hold tight then release and turn manoeuvre is difficult on the short straight without the square for use. It didn't give me enough space/time to indicate with the left, free, hand that I wanted her close to my left thigh. I really only could use that hand tapping the thigh after I had released her from the lead altogether, more to see how much progress had been made rather than a further training ploy.
I took Sue's point that the presence of the calm Tosca aided the situation and it did seem to get Enola started into the car after I put her there. But I also think that it might be better if I had Enola on her own and better for both of us to concentrate. Certainly in the field where Enola runs on the 10 metre lunge my concentration is split between calling her to slow or stop to avoid coming up with a violent jerk and calming her enthusiasm to run with Tosca where she has already had 2 accidental collisions knocking poor Tosca flying and off her feet. It may be necessary to split their outings into 2. But that would involve leaving both of them alone at home (though with Fran of course) alternately.
Enola does have some separation issues when I am out of the house, she is not destructive but she is distressed as reported by Fran. But Fran's presence does help and I have been taking short breaks of half an hour or so away, on the trike, shopping etc in order to build up to a 2 hour absence to Angouleme on Friday afternoon to collect a couple of Spanish dogs.
by Le Démerdeur » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:58 am
Heartwarming to watch
She is playing you up because she is pedantic about conjugaison
by Stompie » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:23 am
That was lovely to watch, she's trying so hard. That wagging tail, so happy.
by Flaneur » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:53 am
Thanks for posting that. Enola looks (to me, and comparing her to Timmy, which is perhaps not the best comparison though he is just as motivated by treats as Enola is) like she is eager to interpret your instructions, which is lovely to see.
(I don't think sporrans are worn like that, though.)
by FrenchForumSurvivor » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:59 am
Not the same dog at all as in the first video, she obviously now feels very much at home.
Is it possible for you to make a ramp up into the back of the car, just a thick sheet of chipboard/ply that would afterwards slide into the space on the left? It would help Tosca, so she could walk into and out of the vehicle without help or needing to be picked up, and Enola might not see the situation as much as jumping into a confined space.
As for the commands, why not 'sit' instead of 'assis'? And 'heel' instead of 'au pied'? Apart from being one syllable, like 'stay' and 'up' and 'in', they're also English, which would help Fran if ever she needed to issue a command. You also mixed your French and English, sometimes saying 'restes' instead of 'stay' and 'entrez' instead of 'up' or 'in'. Not that you need any help in egg-sucking, just my inexperienced observations.
by Flaneur » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:15 am
Turns out you can even buy them, though at a price! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Easipet-Plasti ... WTMFCGG21F
by FrenchForumSurvivor » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:18 am
Not as practical or adaptable as a sheet of ply, though.
I was already out of my area of any slight expertise commenting on the training: I certainly don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to DIY
by Spardo » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:24 pm
Lots of suggestions and comments there, all are welcome, and I don't know everything but I do have some answers.
Ramps were tried years ago (still have it now as a fence blocker ) for Tosca and other elderly dogs. All refused point blank, terrified of falling off I think.
The French as well as English commands I have always used for all my dogs (mainly because most of them have been French and were coming into an English home) but in this case especially, she is a French dog from a French Association and she is only a foster at the moment so, if for some reason (my age is one) she has to move on it is most likely that she will move to a French family. Dogs are very good at bi-lingual commands, and the Spanish ones quickly absorb even a 3rd for a time.
Not the same dog at all as in the first video, she obviously now feels very much at home.
Yes, and that is something of a problem. She has become fiercely attached to me and is very unhappy when I leave home. She can open a 2 metre square sliding, double glazed patio door with her nose after first flipping the handle upwards to release the catch. I leave the house via the front door, locking it from the outside because the handle to that operates downwards and she could easily open it. No problem, I thought, after checkiing for clamps and locks online I eventually settled with a pair of mole grips clamped on the rail at the back of the door. It works, not even I could shift it, even with my nose. However she kicks up such a fuss hurling herself at the door that I was worried she might sustain an injury, although she does calm a bit if Fran is up and about.
So next solution. Leave the door open as it normally is in the daytime but shut the front gate instead. Tested that, I left through the gate securing it behind me and hid round the corner. The weeping and shouting only lasted for about 3 minutes before she joined me in the lane. I did it again but this time stood and watched her where she could see me. She managed to jump, drag and wriggle herslf through the gap between the gate and post, which is not as wide as she is.
So, what to do? I can lock her in the house with Tosca and Fran for short absences but what about longer ones? I am no longer away overnight but am still on the list for day runs. Now she has overcome her fear of the car there will be times when I can take her with me. But on Friday the short run to Angouleme to collect 2 dogs from a Spanish transporter to bring back to Sharon's, has now turned into 3 dogs, all Lab sized. 2 are brothers so for the 45 minute return journey can squeeze into the larger cage. Unless I can train Enola to enter and ride beside me in the passenger seat by then, she will have to spend a couple of hours back at Sharon's. It will feel like a betrayal.
I have already completed the seemingly impossible task of coaxing her into the cage today, so now I will have to start coaxing her into the passenger seat. She'll be able to drive the bloody thing by Friday at this rate.
by suein56 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:54 pm
That made me laugh ..
She is obviously hugely intelligent.
by Spardo » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:17 pm
Yes, she's giving me an inferiority complex.
by Veem » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:40 pm
You could revert to plan B. You get in the cage, bow to her superior intelligence, pass her the keys and let her drive to Angouleme. Or ....... plan C. Leave her with Sharon, who I'm sure would entertain her for a couple of hours and then return to a very grateful Enola.
You're doing brilliantly Spardo. She hasn't been with you for a week yet .
by Le Démerdeur » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:26 pm
I am really enjoying this thread, as the story slowly unravels, better than anything on TV including the dog whisperer which I really like but you know its editted, staged & polished, this is real life.
good on you
I think we need daily updates.
Is Enola's attachment to you likely to become a problem, Spardo? It seems to have developed quickly - presumably because of her past.
by Crystal » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:03 pm
You have done surpringly well in the short time you have had Enola, she is a very clever dog and is clearly constantly seeking your attention and approval.
Regards getting a ramp - We discovered that most big dogs are afraid to walk on a surface that looks at all smooth. My daughter does dog grooming and I made her a ramp for the big dogs to walk up and into the bath. My first trial using plywood was unsuccessful, with every dog flatly refusing to walk up it, no matter how much they were coaxed, or what reward was on offer.
Then one day I noticed our 2 dobies playing chase, racing up and down the open ramp of the horse trailer and it dawned on me that if they were choosing to run about on the textured rubber flooring of the ramp, I should try fixing some of the same stuff on the bath ramp - and it worked.
Most dogs are now quite happy to walk up the ramp...although they usually try a quick U-turn at the top when they realise what's next!
Maybe it's something worth trying with Tosca? I bought the rubber in our local brico - a workshop mat, not very thick, but with a very course texture.
@ Le Demerdeur
Is Enola's attachment to you likely to become a problem, Spardo? It seems to have developed quickly - presumably because of her past.
by Spardo - I don't know, only now with this worry about my absence which I wasn't aware of before, has it appeared to become an issue. I am really concentrating my efforts on several fronts. I would like to get my wife, as another human resident here, more involved and as a source of comfort and security for Enola. But Fran, because of her medical condition, spends a large part of her day in bed and even when out of it, is sedentary in one room. I need to do more testing at times when I know Fran is up and about.
I have an inkling that something of this sort was the reason for her having to leave her first, and latest, home. A woman, expecting a baby with not so much time to give having also an elderly dog and a cat. Reading between the lines I believe that she may have been working or at least out of the house at times, but more emphasis was placed on Enola's timidity and fear of people she doesn't know and the sounds of city life. So that was why I, and the Presidente, considered my own situation in a quiet backwater and time to spare, a suitable alternative.
I am not contemplating giving up on her though. If we can overcome this separation anxiety, perhaps with the help of Fran, we could have a lovely companion to adopt, not just to foster.
The plan is this. Continue with the various training areas. Either get Fran to be more of a presence during my short sorties, shops, trike etc. with the aid of the locked front door and the mole-gripped rear door, or, with her ever increasing acceptance of the car, simply take her with me. Or both. Longer journeys like Friday, which may not be typical in the future because I have forced by my retirement from overnights the main association to work harder to find co-voiturer volunteers or professionals after 10 years of relying on me. But the fact that they did so rely shows how difficult the alternative has been to organise.
Friday. I can go with the plan to leave her at Sharon's for a couple of hours or so while I fetch the Spanish dogs, but experience has shown that these professionals are extremely unreliable and it could be longer. But I will also use these two days to try to train her into the passenger seat with a suitable restraint (I have done it before but with somewhat smaller dogs) so that she can stay with me. If difficult there it would only be for the duration of the return trip, about 45 minutes or so.
The tripod is there, outside, so weather permitting I will try to record my efforts.
Post by Flaneur » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:54 pm
Well, if anyone can do it, you can. Patience, persistence and a gentle voice!
by Spardo
Crystal wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:03 pm
You have done surpringly well in the short time you have had Enola, she is a very clever dog and is clearly constantly seeking your attention and approval.
Regards getting a ramp - We discovered that most big dogs are afraid to walk on a surface that looks at all smooth. My daughter does dog grooming and I made her a ramp for the big dogs to walk up and into the bath. My first trial using plywood was unsuccessful, with every dog flatly refusing to walk up it, no matter how much they were coaxed, or what reward was on offer.
Then one day I noticed our 2 dobies playing chase, racing up and down the open ramp of the horse trailer and it dawned on me that if they were choosing to run about on the textured rubber flooring of the ramp, I should try fixing some of the same stuff on the bath ramp - and it worked.
Most dogs are now quite happy to walk up the ramp...although they usually try a quick U-turn at the top when they realise what's next!
Maybe it's something worth trying with Tosca? I bought the rubber in our local brico - a workshop mat, not very thick, but with a very course texture.
Thank you Crystal, I appreciate your suggestions and interest, but I bought a ramp designed for the purpose in ribbed plastic from the pet place next to Newhaven docks on one of my several journeys through the port. Sami, the little Spaniel didn't like it and, like you, I thought it was because of the surface so bought several rubber car mats here, he still wouldn't use it so the idea was shelved. This wasn't a steep incline, it was to help Fran get him into the back of the Saxo we had then, when she was still driving. In the end we gave up and she managed by him scrambling into the passenger footwell. It was of very strong construction and I even tried it with our 45 kg Rottie, Boss, but he was also similarly unimpressed.
With Tosca? I don't know, I doubt she would use it, she doesn't like the car at all even though she does love our walks, the moment she sees me preparing the treats bag she gets very excited but then you can almost see her face drop when I head instead for the car. But it is not something that is in the forefront of our minds at the moment. The only need for her to travel in the car is down to the river field for a run around while we wait for the farmer to cut the back and top fields. Then it will be back to normal with no further trips necessary.
Post by Spardo » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:36 am
Too wet for 'co-pilot' training today, maybe later, but an advance on another front. The dog that twice had to be forced bodily into the front cage only a week or so ago, went in, had a treat and came out no less than 3 times last night with absolutely no bodily contact needed.
This morning, again she went into the cage. to go down to the river and then again for the return. This time no treat proffered and only given once in there.
And just to make sure that she hadn't been taken over by an alien but sympa spirit, on our return, she did it again.
Over the last 2 nights an interesting observation in canine psychology. Normally Tosca sleeps in the large open cage but transfers after her first outing of each day, to the long settee set aside for dogs. Enola since her arrival has slept on the mattress alongside the cage, but transferred later when I am in that room, to the mat in front of the settee, but never on it.
The night before last I noticed on getting up that Tosca was asleep on the mattress. No idea where Enola slept because she comes into me as soon as I stir, but this morning Tosca is in the cage and I know Enola was on the settee. She was also on the settee last evening, not on the mat, when I was in there. Apart from the time when she noticed that the laptop had been put aside, when she was then on my lap. Musical chairs in the canine world, but with no dominance or compulsion.
Boss, my late Rottie would stand staring at Tosca if she was in the cage and he wanted to be. But in the night he was on the settee. He was dominant but non-aggressive, she always gave into him but was not afraid. On leaving the cage under his gaze she would push him out of the way if he was blocking it.
The weather is brightening, perhaps the passenger seat this afternoon? On verra.
Post by suein56 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:58 am
She is coming on in leaps and bounds .. see what I said there
I am looking forward to this afternoon's instalment
Post by jsks » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:54 pm
It's reading threads like this that restore some faith in humanity. And canine-anity, too.
Post by Flaneur » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:01 pm
Even my cat's feline it
Post by SW31girl » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:18 pm
It’s a lovely story Spardo. She’s really starting to feel she’s at home.
Post by Spardo » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:27 pm
I have cleared the passenger seat and footwell of all my stuff, jackets, audio book cds etc. and installed a cardboard barrier jammed between the seat and the armrest and centre storage console. Also a nice soft and clean blanket on the seat and floor.
I tried to encourage her in but she is only willing to climb in with front legs on the seat so far. Will try again later.
Also later when Fran emerges I will see if Enola can become calm when I am off the premises. If I can find a safe spot I will set up the tripod and video.
When we first got Boss we used to go together to the chippy van at the bar each week and I set up the video behind a table to watch what happened later. To start with I was able to semi partition 2 rooms with a glass door between them but with a gap underneath so that Tosca could go to the kitchen for water. They both very quickly settled down with no problems between them. So the next week we removed the divider and all was sweetness and light.
If I can get to a similar stage with only me absent I shall be pleased for the time being. But when we both go to the doctors next week or so, we may have to take both in the car with us.
Post by Spardo » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:54 pm
Late update as Fran did not emerge till this evening. Once she was up and about I carefully locked and blocked the 2 doors and set off for my traditional circuit on the trike, partly also as I haven't been able to since Monday.
When I got back and re-entered via the front door I saw a calm Enola waiting behind the glass, but once opened she flew into my arms for a great big welcome, well 10 minutes is a long time when you are not sure that the absentee is ever going to return.
But apart from a pair of my boots near the door slightly out of place there was no evidence of the wild previous activity. Fran said that she did make an initial fuss but was reasonably calm after the first few minutes, especially as Fran joined her near the front door. So very good news for short periods, but out of the question if the doors would normally be open as we now know the front gate, and maybe other weak points I can't see in the undergrowth, is no bar to her.
Tomorrow I will do a longer circuit which I am now more used to and leave the video going at the end of the veranda. This will record visually any activity near the back door, and audibly near the front. Fran is unlikely to be up but anything really violent sounding will surely get her up.
Earlier I got Enola onto the seat in a sitting position, but that is the easy bit. I was sitting in my seat encouraging her, in a real situation I would have to be outside to shut the door behind her. Much more of a challenge. She will definitely have to set out with me on Friday afternoon but I think the odds are that she will have to be dropped at Sharon's rather than doing the whole journey. But, as we have seen, this beautiful, intelligent dog, has surprised us before.
Post by FrenchForumSurvivor » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:35 pm
Tie a long piece of string to the inside of the passenger door so you can pull it shut from the driver's seat while she's paying attention to you.
Post by Gardengirl » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:16 pm
This is such a lovely, engrossing story about Enola and how things are progressing, Spardo.
by Spardo » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:15 pm
FrenchForumSurvivor wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:35 pm
Tie a long piece of string to the inside of the passenger door so you can pull it shut from the driver's seat while she's paying attention to you.
Yes, I could, but I want to be able to do it from the outside after her obedient entry and wait.
Also, if she should change her mind and put a leg outside after I have pulled, I would have no way of avoiding the inevitable.
Like my over the roof with a lunge rein both pulling and pushing to load a resisting dog. But that is for dogs I don't know and won't know for more than one day or 2 on a journey.
Similarly using Rescue Remedy for a disturbed or disruptive passenger, very rare, but I don't want to use it with Enola to conquer her separation anxiety, I want to be able to reassure her that absence doesn't mean abandonement. I think that frequent, short sorties may be the best way to convince her of that.
This morning's video of her distress while I was out for half an hour or so is chugging its way through the editorial process at the moment. Reduced from 30 to 13 minutes, or less if necessary after I have viewed the result.
Then I will post it later
Post by Spardo » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:24 pm
To JSKS, the whistle arrived this morning, I will try it out tomorrow, but as I think she is already ready for offlead in the field, her recall is so good, that would seem to be the least of her worries.
Top priorities are 'stay' and calm in the face of absence.
I can't see why 'stay' is still a problem. When I put her food bowl down she has learned to wait for the magic word before advancing to tuck in. That came at the end of the 2nd day I think.
Post by Spardo » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:24 pm
I think this video says it all, not much more to say. I have edited it ruthlessly from 30 minutes, but still it is over 13 minutes long. Not really necessary to watch all the way through, you will soon get the gist, but I didn't want to miss anything out.
.Post by why me? » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:28 pm
Mme Mutt, our found abandoned rescue dog, was exactly the same at first.
We started using the phrase "won't be long, you're in charge" every time we left her on her own.
14 years on she still associates that phrase with knowing we're going out but will be back, & always settles down in her basket on hearing it. It's something that has worked well in the numerous hotel rooms we've left her in whilst we dine where she's never been a problem.
Post by Flaneur » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:36 pm
Difficult, Spardo.
Why me, I do that with our cat, because someone recommended rituals with cats, though obviously cats <> dogs. Certainly cats are speedy learners, and love routines /rituals; maybe dogs too?
Post by Spardo » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:53 pm
Some dogs. Others are as thick as dogshit, and some even like eating it. The taste has a certain je ne sais quoi.
I would think.
Post by Spardo » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:02 pm
Does anyone want to see a really happy dog?
Enola proved yesterday, and continues to do so, that she has overcome her fear of the car, often leaping in unbidden if a door is open. So that's that sorted. Then, as you will see below she is learning to lie down, learning to stay (but still a bit iffy on that) and her recall is excellent. Tomorrow she will be off that lunge rein and completely free in the field.
I think she came back to the whistle, or maybe to my voice, or both. As long as she comes back is the most important thing. I didn't try the walking to heel today but she did at this point yesterday, so I am sure that will not be long too.
You may notice, and I am going back to remark on the video message, that I seem to to be changing Tosca's sex. I don't know why but for some reason, since Enola's arrival, Tosca seems smaller now and more like my 2 previous male Spaniels, Match and Sami. Both similar colouring to her and smaller than her. She hasn't changed, it's all in my brain.
Mme Mutt, our found abandoned rescue dog, was exactly the same at first.
We started using the phrase "won't be long, you're in charge" every time we left her on her own.
14 years on she still associates that phrase with knowing we're going out but will be back, & always settles down in her basket on hearing it. It's something that has worked well in the numerous hotel rooms we've left her in whilst we dine where she's never been a problem.
Post by Flaneur » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:36 pm
Difficult, Spardo.
Why me, I do that with our cat, because someone recommended rituals with cats, though obviously cats <> dogs. Certainly cats are speedy learners, and love routines /rituals; maybe dogs too?
Post by Spardo » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:53 pm
Some dogs. Others are as thick as dogshit, and some even like eating it. The taste has a certain je ne sais quoi.
I would think.
Post by Spardo » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:02 pm
Does anyone want to see a really happy dog?
Enola proved yesterday, and continues to do so, that she has overcome her fear of the car, often leaping in unbidden if a door is open. So that's that sorted. Then, as you will see below she is learning to lie down, learning to stay (but still a bit iffy on that) and her recall is excellent. Tomorrow she will be off that lunge rein and completely free in the field.
I think she came back to the whistle, or maybe to my voice, or both. As long as she comes back is the most important thing. I didn't try the walking to heel today but she did at this point yesterday, so I am sure that will not be long too.
You may notice, and I am going back to remark on the video message, that I seem to to be changing Tosca's sex. I don't know why but for some reason, since Enola's arrival, Tosca seems smaller now and more like my 2 previous male Spaniels, Match and Sami. Both similar colouring to her and smaller than her. She hasn't changed, it's all in my brain.
Post by Flaneur » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:14 pm
It's worth the subscription we pay just for this thread
Post by Veem » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:45 pm
You're both making so much progress
Post by suein56 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:58 am
Progress is really being made .. it's such good news
by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:03 am
Well the day I have been dreading arrives tomorrow. Enola's sterilisation. I can't bear the thought of her being kept, away from me, all day long in the vet's cage before the operation, so I have asked Sharon, who will be there with another dog, to see if I can wait until they want to do it so that I can turn up with her at that time and wait to take her home again afterwards.
Her lie down on command is improving now, her willingness, even keenness, to leap into the car cage has been a great help here because once she is in with the door closed, I can encourage her to coucher to get the treat low down through the door grill.
Even the most difficult for her to come to terms with, 'stay', is getting better. She has already either curbed the temptation to head for the slower eating Tosca's bowl, or stopped dead at my forceful 'leave it' command. More difficult has been her attempt to manoeuvre herslf into position to get her after dinner treat cum tooth cleaner (a knob of stale bread) before the senior member. But even that for the first time today was frustrated as she sat immobile as Tosca got hers first.
But I mustn't get too overconfident and try to run before I can walk and today I was brought up slightly short when she found something, I don't know what, more interesting than me 100 metres away across the river field. One call, one whistle, both unheeded. Then a very loud blast on the whistle and she immediately covered the distance between us in an incredibly short time. As I was standing by the car chatting to someone at the time she raced straight into the cage. Doubting moment over, but a lesson learned.
So I am ready for the call tomorrow, documents ready EMEB sponsored East Midlands Petanque T-shirt at the ready. This to try and avoid the drastic plastic collar after the op. And, although I will go ahead as normal with my, now customary, weekly Tuesday shop I will take her with me and be prepared to carry on at a moment's notice should the call from Sharon come.Post by Flaneur » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:10 am
Prayers and thoughts with you tomorrow, Spardo.
Thank God our animals don't worry like we do!
Post by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:38 am
Thank you and yes, she knows nothing about it, while I, sadly for my own peace of mind, do
Post by Veem » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:44 am
You have prepared her as well as you possibly could. I hope all goes well and she'll be home again with you soon. I'm confused now though because of the time you wrote your earlier piece. Is this happening today or tomorrow, Wednesday? Good luck to both of you.
Post by suein56 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:22 am
I think it's today, Tuesday, Veem .. we'll find out later on ☺ .. but that's the day Spardo usually does his shopping.
Fingers crossed Enola doesn't become too stressed.
Post by Stompie » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:19 am
Hoping all goes smoothly for Enola, Spardo.
Post by Gardengirl » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:37 am
Me too. She has come on so very well - I almost said by leaps and bounds!
Post by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:05 pm
Today Veem, I wrote my last message after midnight last night, which is this morning and to day was tomorrow.
Got the call in the middle of supermarket shopping. I had determined to leave the ice cream and go straight to the vet if I got the call. But the call was that the vet was very busy and he would call 30 minutes before he would put her under. So I bought the ice cream. 5 minutes later as I was leaving the cashout I got a 2nd call saying come now, so I went.
Got her on the table and she was soon asleep, no fuss. I asked when can I collect her. The partner said debut d'apres-midi, so I said midi? A female vet shook her head so I said when? She didn't answer so a third, a young man, said she has to awaken first.
Confused? Yes. I told them I would wait in the town and sooner would be better, and then went to Sharon to collect my enormous reimbursement for the 3 Spaniards on Friday, a Scalibor collar for Enola and to have a cold drink and catchup with Sharon. No call came by midday so I set off home, arriving here at 12.30. The ice cream finally arrived in the freezer.
Here we go, just got the all-clear, off to Nontron for Enola
Post by Veem » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:48 pm
Yup. Can't think why I was confused
So pleased the day has gone so smoothly so far. Hopefully she'll be awake and very pleased to see you. Fingers crossed.
by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:43 pm
Just got back, she seems fine, if a little subdued, and no sign of any desire to interfere with the stitches.
First thing when I got there was a muffled voice behind a mask telling me to wear a mask. I tuned to get one from the car but the muffled voice then said it doesn't matter. I should think not, the vet when he appeared wasn't wearing one.
They were then worried that Enola would bite them when the infusion was removed, and could I hold her, so did and we were all done and ready to go. Nothing to pay, it is all on the PAD account, and nothing to sign, so after a short walk for a long pee it was in the car and back home. She can eat at 8 tonight, and stitches out in 10 days.
The back and top fields have both been cut, Tosca and I had the inaugural walk alone this morning so it is a new terrain for Enola to learn in the morning. First day will be on an extendable, the 2nd on the held lunge then maybe the 3rd on the loose lunge by which time as long as she can stay away from the lane, completely free on the 4th day.
Post by Veem » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:03 pm
99 times out of 100 when I wind myself up into a state of complete anxiety if one of the animals isn't well, it turns out to have been nothing (much) to worry about. So I can understand what relief you must be feeling to have today almost over with.
Post by Le Démerdeur » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:50 pm
Debut d'apres midi = beginning of the afternoon (after lunch) which seems to be any time from 14.00 to 17.00 with at least a couple of hours overlap with fin d'apres midi
I usually ask them to préciser l'horaire which always results in a cerebral overload and shutdown.
Post by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:25 pm
Enola is very calm since we got back, she is not following me around like she normally does, and has lain by my chair all the way through dinner. Because of the once only 'not before 8pm' rule I had to break off from my dinner in between courses to feed them both, but didn't have to be physically there to dissuade with my presence any temptation on Enola's part to advance towards Tosca before the latter had finished her bowl. She did not follow me out of the room but she did follow me when I requested her to do so. So sooner back to my next course.
The only drawback came not from her but Tosca. At stale bread time after their dinners Enola sat close to Tosca but did not move towards her, but, as I was concentrating on her Tosca gave me a painful nip on the finger in snatching for her bread, which she can't see properly. I am wondering if it would make a difference if I covered Tosca's eyes completely for a second and moved the bread to touch her lips quickly.
The best news is that she has paid no attention at all to her wound, and I've got to say the vet has done a really neat job. Perhaps he has been so good to make it so she can't feel anything at all from it
Post by suein56 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:51 pm
Spardo wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:25 pm
The best news is that she has paid no attention at all to her wound, and I've got to say the vet has done a really neat job. Perhaps he has been so good to make it so she can't feel anything at all from it.
Tomorrow might be different .. as the feeling comes back into the affected areas
Edit : My post sounds defeatist .. which was not at all my aim; so apologies if it comes over like that.
It was simply a reflection on the number of animals we have had who have been neutered whilst in our charge .. some have overcome this physical onslaught with nary a backward glance. Others have taken their time and had minor reactions .. which needed time and loving attention.
I am confident Enola will come through this well .. with expert veterinary skill on the one hand and your undying support on the other.
Post by Spardo » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:25 am
The East Midlands Electricity Board is ready and waiting if the need should arise (with their T-shirt))
So far so good this morning, and she didn't come into me at 7am as she has been doing, but allowed me an extra hour in bed, and then only came in when she saw me getting up
Post by Veem » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:03 am
The last girl dogs I had sterilised were little mini dachsies (mother and daughter) back in the 80s. It amazed me how quickly both recovered from the ops and within 24 hours were rather scarily back to using the catflap with no apparent discomfort.
Unlike us, animals have no expectation of possible pain following surgery so they often seem to cope better than we do
Post by Spardo » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:46 am
Enola was using the dogflap last night, apart from her slightly subdued demeanor, she seems well back to normal already. The PAD website members assume she is bandaged, I have put them right and mentioned the EMEB backup, if needed.
Off for her first post op walk soon.
And I wonder how she will take to my short absence on the trike afterwards.
Post by Spardo » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:03 pm
The walk was a bit awkward on the extendable but, until she gets used to the new limits of the new, to her, fields I have to take it slowly. She followed Tosca through the forest section though but was obviously envious of Tosca's freedom.
Tomorrow the lunge, and I will decide when to give her her head. A bit different from the river field in that 2 sides of the top field are bordered by lanes. Also difficult maintaining the walking to heel back down the lane with 2 dogs. It really needs 2 hands to do it properly.
I have a slow puncture on the rear of the trike so she was dancing attendance as I hooked up the pump so that I could do the circuit. Then shut in the house while I went out I could hear some crying but I think it is slowly getting easier. Maybe set the video up again in a few days to see for myself.
A startling example of her skittishness later as I sat out on the shaded west terrasse to read my Kindle with a cool drink on the small stool next to me. She was lying down on a loose mat when I moved my foot slightly making a scraping sound on the concrete as I did so. She shot off like a rocket, shooting the mat backwards into the stool and nearly sending my glass flying. As she sailed off the 3 foot high terrasse her foot caught a dangling control cord from a rolled up unused blind, dragging that with her. It was shocking because it was so rapid but fortunately she wasn't hurt and came back for re-assurance straight away.
Post by Veem » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:45 pm
Spardo wrote, 'It was shocking because it was so rapid but fortunately she wasn't hurt and came back for re-assurance straight away.'
What a sweetheart she's becoming. Not only did you cause her to be frightened enough to jump off the terrace, but she tangled up in the process and still looked to you for that confidence-building re-assurance. I think you're quickly morphing into mummy .
by Spardo » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:44 pm
To be fair, she may not have realised that it was me who frightened her.
Post by Spardo » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:26 pm
Now that I have improved the gate to eliminate the gap she squeezed out of before, I decided to see what actually happens when I leave her alone in the garden, instead of the house.
First test was simply to walk out of sight for a few minutes. No problems with that apart from her barking and crying. Then I got the trike out and did the short 1 km circuit, all I am allowed at the moment because of her distress. I was quite pleased with the result though I did check her and the gate afterwards for any damage due to the short periods she scrabbled at it.
I needed to see if she had any tendency to find a weak spot somewhere else in the garden, but the 2 times she disappeared from view were only for a few seconds at most.
So, a good start I think, and I will keep my absences short like this till I am sure she feels more secure. Can hardly wait to get back to the 6 kms along the banks of the river though. All in good time.
Best of all though was her instant recall to the whistle each time. Much better than shouting and more effective.
For the safety of the camera I secured it on the tripod with legs locked into the cage roof. I know she tends to jump in and out of the rear of the car now and didn't want her upsetting it. Not the best of videos but it did serve its purpose.
It's worth the subscription we pay just for this thread
Post by Veem » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:45 pm
You're both making so much progress
Post by suein56 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:58 am
Progress is really being made .. it's such good news
by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:03 am
Well the day I have been dreading arrives tomorrow. Enola's sterilisation. I can't bear the thought of her being kept, away from me, all day long in the vet's cage before the operation, so I have asked Sharon, who will be there with another dog, to see if I can wait until they want to do it so that I can turn up with her at that time and wait to take her home again afterwards.
Her lie down on command is improving now, her willingness, even keenness, to leap into the car cage has been a great help here because once she is in with the door closed, I can encourage her to coucher to get the treat low down through the door grill.
Even the most difficult for her to come to terms with, 'stay', is getting better. She has already either curbed the temptation to head for the slower eating Tosca's bowl, or stopped dead at my forceful 'leave it' command. More difficult has been her attempt to manoeuvre herslf into position to get her after dinner treat cum tooth cleaner (a knob of stale bread) before the senior member. But even that for the first time today was frustrated as she sat immobile as Tosca got hers first.
But I mustn't get too overconfident and try to run before I can walk and today I was brought up slightly short when she found something, I don't know what, more interesting than me 100 metres away across the river field. One call, one whistle, both unheeded. Then a very loud blast on the whistle and she immediately covered the distance between us in an incredibly short time. As I was standing by the car chatting to someone at the time she raced straight into the cage. Doubting moment over, but a lesson learned.
So I am ready for the call tomorrow, documents ready EMEB sponsored East Midlands Petanque T-shirt at the ready. This to try and avoid the drastic plastic collar after the op. And, although I will go ahead as normal with my, now customary, weekly Tuesday shop I will take her with me and be prepared to carry on at a moment's notice should the call from Sharon come.Post by Flaneur » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:10 am
Prayers and thoughts with you tomorrow, Spardo.
Thank God our animals don't worry like we do!
Post by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:38 am
Thank you and yes, she knows nothing about it, while I, sadly for my own peace of mind, do
Post by Veem » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:44 am
You have prepared her as well as you possibly could. I hope all goes well and she'll be home again with you soon. I'm confused now though because of the time you wrote your earlier piece. Is this happening today or tomorrow, Wednesday? Good luck to both of you.
Post by suein56 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:22 am
I think it's today, Tuesday, Veem .. we'll find out later on ☺ .. but that's the day Spardo usually does his shopping.
Fingers crossed Enola doesn't become too stressed.
Post by Stompie » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:19 am
Hoping all goes smoothly for Enola, Spardo.
Post by Gardengirl » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:37 am
Me too. She has come on so very well - I almost said by leaps and bounds!
Post by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:05 pm
Today Veem, I wrote my last message after midnight last night, which is this morning and to day was tomorrow.
Got the call in the middle of supermarket shopping. I had determined to leave the ice cream and go straight to the vet if I got the call. But the call was that the vet was very busy and he would call 30 minutes before he would put her under. So I bought the ice cream. 5 minutes later as I was leaving the cashout I got a 2nd call saying come now, so I went.
Got her on the table and she was soon asleep, no fuss. I asked when can I collect her. The partner said debut d'apres-midi, so I said midi? A female vet shook her head so I said when? She didn't answer so a third, a young man, said she has to awaken first.
Confused? Yes. I told them I would wait in the town and sooner would be better, and then went to Sharon to collect my enormous reimbursement for the 3 Spaniards on Friday, a Scalibor collar for Enola and to have a cold drink and catchup with Sharon. No call came by midday so I set off home, arriving here at 12.30. The ice cream finally arrived in the freezer.
Here we go, just got the all-clear, off to Nontron for Enola
Post by Veem » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:48 pm
Yup. Can't think why I was confused
So pleased the day has gone so smoothly so far. Hopefully she'll be awake and very pleased to see you. Fingers crossed.
by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:43 pm
Just got back, she seems fine, if a little subdued, and no sign of any desire to interfere with the stitches.
First thing when I got there was a muffled voice behind a mask telling me to wear a mask. I tuned to get one from the car but the muffled voice then said it doesn't matter. I should think not, the vet when he appeared wasn't wearing one.
They were then worried that Enola would bite them when the infusion was removed, and could I hold her, so did and we were all done and ready to go. Nothing to pay, it is all on the PAD account, and nothing to sign, so after a short walk for a long pee it was in the car and back home. She can eat at 8 tonight, and stitches out in 10 days.
The back and top fields have both been cut, Tosca and I had the inaugural walk alone this morning so it is a new terrain for Enola to learn in the morning. First day will be on an extendable, the 2nd on the held lunge then maybe the 3rd on the loose lunge by which time as long as she can stay away from the lane, completely free on the 4th day.
Post by Veem » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:03 pm
99 times out of 100 when I wind myself up into a state of complete anxiety if one of the animals isn't well, it turns out to have been nothing (much) to worry about. So I can understand what relief you must be feeling to have today almost over with.
Post by Le Démerdeur » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:50 pm
Debut d'apres midi = beginning of the afternoon (after lunch) which seems to be any time from 14.00 to 17.00 with at least a couple of hours overlap with fin d'apres midi
I usually ask them to préciser l'horaire which always results in a cerebral overload and shutdown.
Post by Spardo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:25 pm
Enola is very calm since we got back, she is not following me around like she normally does, and has lain by my chair all the way through dinner. Because of the once only 'not before 8pm' rule I had to break off from my dinner in between courses to feed them both, but didn't have to be physically there to dissuade with my presence any temptation on Enola's part to advance towards Tosca before the latter had finished her bowl. She did not follow me out of the room but she did follow me when I requested her to do so. So sooner back to my next course.
The only drawback came not from her but Tosca. At stale bread time after their dinners Enola sat close to Tosca but did not move towards her, but, as I was concentrating on her Tosca gave me a painful nip on the finger in snatching for her bread, which she can't see properly. I am wondering if it would make a difference if I covered Tosca's eyes completely for a second and moved the bread to touch her lips quickly.
The best news is that she has paid no attention at all to her wound, and I've got to say the vet has done a really neat job. Perhaps he has been so good to make it so she can't feel anything at all from it
Post by suein56 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:51 pm
Spardo wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:25 pm
The best news is that she has paid no attention at all to her wound, and I've got to say the vet has done a really neat job. Perhaps he has been so good to make it so she can't feel anything at all from it.
Tomorrow might be different .. as the feeling comes back into the affected areas
Edit : My post sounds defeatist .. which was not at all my aim; so apologies if it comes over like that.
It was simply a reflection on the number of animals we have had who have been neutered whilst in our charge .. some have overcome this physical onslaught with nary a backward glance. Others have taken their time and had minor reactions .. which needed time and loving attention.
I am confident Enola will come through this well .. with expert veterinary skill on the one hand and your undying support on the other.
Post by Spardo » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:25 am
The East Midlands Electricity Board is ready and waiting if the need should arise (with their T-shirt))
So far so good this morning, and she didn't come into me at 7am as she has been doing, but allowed me an extra hour in bed, and then only came in when she saw me getting up
Post by Veem » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:03 am
The last girl dogs I had sterilised were little mini dachsies (mother and daughter) back in the 80s. It amazed me how quickly both recovered from the ops and within 24 hours were rather scarily back to using the catflap with no apparent discomfort.
Unlike us, animals have no expectation of possible pain following surgery so they often seem to cope better than we do
Post by Spardo » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:46 am
Enola was using the dogflap last night, apart from her slightly subdued demeanor, she seems well back to normal already. The PAD website members assume she is bandaged, I have put them right and mentioned the EMEB backup, if needed.
Off for her first post op walk soon.
And I wonder how she will take to my short absence on the trike afterwards.
Post by Spardo » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:03 pm
The walk was a bit awkward on the extendable but, until she gets used to the new limits of the new, to her, fields I have to take it slowly. She followed Tosca through the forest section though but was obviously envious of Tosca's freedom.
Tomorrow the lunge, and I will decide when to give her her head. A bit different from the river field in that 2 sides of the top field are bordered by lanes. Also difficult maintaining the walking to heel back down the lane with 2 dogs. It really needs 2 hands to do it properly.
I have a slow puncture on the rear of the trike so she was dancing attendance as I hooked up the pump so that I could do the circuit. Then shut in the house while I went out I could hear some crying but I think it is slowly getting easier. Maybe set the video up again in a few days to see for myself.
A startling example of her skittishness later as I sat out on the shaded west terrasse to read my Kindle with a cool drink on the small stool next to me. She was lying down on a loose mat when I moved my foot slightly making a scraping sound on the concrete as I did so. She shot off like a rocket, shooting the mat backwards into the stool and nearly sending my glass flying. As she sailed off the 3 foot high terrasse her foot caught a dangling control cord from a rolled up unused blind, dragging that with her. It was shocking because it was so rapid but fortunately she wasn't hurt and came back for re-assurance straight away.
Post by Veem » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:45 pm
Spardo wrote, 'It was shocking because it was so rapid but fortunately she wasn't hurt and came back for re-assurance straight away.'
What a sweetheart she's becoming. Not only did you cause her to be frightened enough to jump off the terrace, but she tangled up in the process and still looked to you for that confidence-building re-assurance. I think you're quickly morphing into mummy .
by Spardo » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:44 pm
To be fair, she may not have realised that it was me who frightened her.
Post by Spardo » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:26 pm
Now that I have improved the gate to eliminate the gap she squeezed out of before, I decided to see what actually happens when I leave her alone in the garden, instead of the house.
First test was simply to walk out of sight for a few minutes. No problems with that apart from her barking and crying. Then I got the trike out and did the short 1 km circuit, all I am allowed at the moment because of her distress. I was quite pleased with the result though I did check her and the gate afterwards for any damage due to the short periods she scrabbled at it.
I needed to see if she had any tendency to find a weak spot somewhere else in the garden, but the 2 times she disappeared from view were only for a few seconds at most.
So, a good start I think, and I will keep my absences short like this till I am sure she feels more secure. Can hardly wait to get back to the 6 kms along the banks of the river though. All in good time.
Best of all though was her instant recall to the whistle each time. Much better than shouting and more effective.
For the safety of the camera I secured it on the tripod with legs locked into the cage roof. I know she tends to jump in and out of the rear of the car now and didn't want her upsetting it. Not the best of videos but it did serve its purpose.
Post by Veem » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:14 am
She certainly doesn't look as though she had fairly major surgery recently!
Interestingly, she didn't bark at your neighbour. She seems to be getting there on the separation problem too.
Post by Spardo » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:15 pm
Best of all though was her instant recall to the whistle each time. Much better than shouting and more effective.
Either she is so daft she doesn't realise where her best interests lie, or she is super intelligent and is making a mug out of me. This morning, as I was preparing for a re-run of yesterday's experiment, she went out of the gate as normal but, instead of hanging around and obeying my command to re-enter she disappeared to a neighbour's garden and would not return. not for the whistle or voice. I had to go there and fetch her back by hand.
Very discouraging, the first time she has put a foot wrong. It was because she was eating food left out for the cats. I knew she was food orientated, from advanced information, and in many ways that is a good thing, easier to train. But this total refusal I can only see as a setback.
Even harder to bear after our first walk in the back and top fields. The grass has been baled and removed now, so a perfect training ground again. She ran with the un-held lunge trailing behind like the wind. I can't believe how fast she is, but each time I blew the whistle she came straight back like an arrow. Even the almost deaf Tosca seems to have heard it, as she came running back from afar too. But she may have just got a clue from Enola's action.
Euphoria. And now this.
Post by Veem » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:58 pm
First, don't be disheartened. They say it takes 7 correct repetitions for a horse to learn a new behaviour - good or bad (and maybe many more for a dog). Second, look at where the video showed potential for things to go wrong.
This morning, as I was preparing for a re-run of yesterday's experiment, she went out of the gate as normal but, instead of hanging around and obeying my command to re-enter she disappeared to a neighbour's garden and would not return.
I suggest it might be that 'she went out of the gate as normal'. There could be loads of potential for things to go wrong immediately after that. Perhaps you might consider training her to wait until you have gone through the gate (or the entrance to any new space) and being 'invited' to join you.
Our dachsie is very food driven and it has taken years to 'persuade' him to stop polishing off any catfood left outside, and only then if you get into his space and rebuke him. Given half a chance if he thinks he can get away with it, he becomes totally deaf and finishes the lot
Post by SW31girl » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:12 pm
I can only use cats as an example but I always think they train us, not the other way round. She sounds super intelligent so yes, she will work out how to play you as a mug.
Post by Spardo » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:18 pm
Veem wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:58 pm
First, don't be disheartened. They say it takes 7 correct repetitions for a horse to learn a new behaviour - good or bad (and maybe many more for a dog). Second, look at where the video showed potential for things to go wrong.
This morning, as I was preparing for a re-run of yesterday's experiment, she went out of the gate as normal but, instead of hanging around and obeying my command to re-enter she disappeared to a neighbour's garden and would not return.
I suggest it might be that 'she went out of the gate as normal'. There could be loads of potential for things to go wrong immediately after that. Perhaps you might consider training her to wait until you have gone through the gate (or the entrance to any new space) and being 'invited' to join you.
Our dachsie is very food driven and it has taken years to 'persuade' him to stop polishing off any catfood left outside, and only then if you get into his space and rebuke him. Given half a chance if he thinks he can get away with it, he becomes totally deaf and finishes the lot.
You are right on the money there, Veem, I should have known as I even said myself earlier in this thread that I was becoming too over confident. 'Stay' is an ongoing problem for her, almost everything else is coming along nicely. What has fooled me is that 'stay' when her bowl goes to the floor, is perfect, she will not move towards it until the command is given. I don't even have to use the word anymore, she waits for the command anyway now.
Back to basics I think. But thank you for your 'first' sentence. I was getting a bit downhearted, but I feel better now.
Post by Le Démerdeur » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:07 pm
That is ingrained pack behaviour when it comes to only eating the kill after AlphaSpardo has eaten his and given permission.
The "stay!" command should be a transferable skill.
Says he who hasn't owned a dog for 50 years
Post by Spardo » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:17 pm
As it happens, in this house the pack eats before the Alphas. This is an administrative issue though. I like to take my time over a meal and don't want to be doing someone else's at 10pm.
Pack time is 6pm, pack pestering time begins after about 4.30pm. I have developed a stony stare. They, principally Tosca, understand but learned behaviour has passed the 2nd string pester position on to Enola, have also learned that each visit is only worth a few seconds at most. But neither seem to have learned that pester never, ever, is successful.
Hope springs eternal.
Post by Spardo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:10 pm
Well a couple of days of light activity and no training. More than one reason for this, I have been a bit depressed about one or two things and Enola is only a part of it. There was even a point yesterday when I had the thought 'this isn't working, I may have to ask Mary to have her back at Sharon's'. I can do this at any time, she is still just a foster.
The reason for this was a horrific moment as we went out for the walk. Tosca as usual set off plodding up the path towards the forest gate. Enola, all excited, raced in the opposite direction before turning and overtaking me at great speed, but Tosca was blocking the way so Enola did a mighty leap right over the top of her. Only trouble was she landed short, on top of Tosca, mainly her head. Poor Tosca was flattened, head and body flat on the ground and all 4 legs spread out sideways. A mixture of anger and concern overcame me and I rushed to help Tosca back to her feet. She wasn't hurt, had made no sound, and, once reconstituted, carried happily on her way.
There was a second reason. As we neared the gate I held Enola on a very short lead so that Tosca could go through first. A very difficult task and in all the confusion forgot to shut the gate afterwards. Once back from the walk, with Enola pulling very hard on the lead, I noticed after a time that she was no longer in the garden. She eventually came racing back to the main gate from Jean-Louis' garden again. So much for separation anxiety, obviously only applies when I am doing the separating. But it is more serious, it means she has made the link between the forest and field directly to J-L's garden. Lots to eat there.
So, much to think about, especially as I didn't think after my feverish night that I would be taking them anywhere today. But after feeling a bit better I could see the light. I can't exercise both dogs together and train one of them at the same time. So, with Fran on 'earlies' today (first time out of bed in 36 hours) the difficult task of leaving Enola in the house while I took Tosca for our traditional walk, with no danger of her being bowled over on the way. Worked out quite well, Fran said that the tantrum was not as bad as usual. After our return, Tosca in the house, door closed because I was intending to bring Enola straight back from the field so was leaving the gate open and didn't want her following me, and Enola through the woods on a 1 metre lead. The boring intonation 'au pied' all the way and she didn't do too badly, pulling wise. Then a treat and off the lead at the edge of the field and she sat and stayed momentarily before I waved my hand and sent her away. I allowed her to run and jump the length and breadth before bringing her back with the whistle for a treat. One setback again, she disappeared into the far wood unheeding the whistle, and on returning at high speed went straight past me and down to J-L's. All I could do is walk in the opposite direction. This works with some dogs because they think you are abandoning them and had been used to great effect with my deaf ones. But that presupposes that the dog can see you and in this case she couldn't so I had just to wait on her whim.
Then, back on the lead we had 15 minutes of 'the square'. Walkng with the dog by left thigh with loop of the lead in right hand and left hand holding it loosely close to the dog. Between that hand and the dog it should hang down in a 'J'. Normally it doesn't and the dog pulls somewhat. So a swift turn to the right at the same time dropping the left hand and tugging the right hand across the body. Together with the command this jerks the dog in the new direction, Repeat, endlessly and boringly until the dog again walks with a slack 'J'. Big celebrations and treats. She was better at it by the time we went home and she did not try and pull me through the forest. Petit a petit.
by suein56 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:34 pm
You are getting there .. both of you
She is making excellent progress and you seem to be doing well too
Post by Veem » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:45 pm
Sorry to hear you have been unwell. In the present climate, it must be incredibly scary to think you might have CV19 symptoms.
Petit a petit though, as you say - or baby steps. She was perhaps full of pent up energy if you haven't been able to walk for a couple of days. I don't think you've said how old she is. You did say she'd been used to going for walks tied to her previous owner's bicycle, so perhaps she hasn't had much time off lead at all and it's blowing her brain!
You've both made huge progress, considering this is only the 18th day she's been with you.
Hoping your next walk gives you something good to tell us all.
Post by Flaneur » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:58 pm
Chin up, Spardo (in case you're still a bit down): there are loads of people here rooting for you and Enola and Tosca!
Post by limousinlady » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:06 pm
Definitely! & Fran
Post by Spardo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:07 pm
Once again, a big thank you to you all. And to your query about her age Veem, she was born in April last year so that makes her about 14 months. I have never had a dog this young before, apart from the Christmas puppy when I was about 9 or 10 I suppose, and she is a revelation to me. Apart from the occasional setbacks, mainly my fault for over estimating her capabilities and speed of learning, it has been great fun.
Tomorrow, we start on the new regime which was largely successful today, one dog at a time. And perhaps some more tasty treats than the Cantal Jeune and occasional ham rind that she has been getting.
One lousy job is now finished. Because of Tosca's liver problem which means only white meat, they both get either sardines or chicken. Last week I bought several tins of sardines in olive oil with pimentos by mistake and realising the hot chillies (I dipped a finger in to check the strength. WOW!) were not suitable for them I have been rooting out the fish and washing them clean of all else. Eurgh! Last tin was today and I will make sure it is tomato sauce or tournesol in future
Post by Flaneur » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:20 pm
I think you need to set up a Zoom call, Spardo!
Post by Spardo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:33 pm
Get a hold of yourself, I've only just mastered Skype, and that every 2 weeks or so and only to my son.
Anyway, I've seen how she rushes around on her own, I'm not letting her loose on the laptop
Post by Flaneur » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:35 pm
Fair enough - Timmy strolls across the keyboard and all of a sudden everything is upside down, full-screen and I have no idea how to fix it!
Post by Spardo » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:01 pm
Second day of one to one. As Tosca was resting in her cage and did not seem fussed about stirring I took Enola to the field first. Ran and jumped as before, perhaps not quite so energetic, but still quicker than anything before, my dear Lira the Greyhound excepted. I do wonder if there isn't something of that in the mix, Beauceronne, Dobermann, Levrier too perhaps? She has the body, deep chest and very slender waist of Lira, though unlike her I can't quite get my 2 hands to touch all the way round, and also those long legs.
Anyway, there was no disappearing into the woods today, and no expedition to J-L's cat feeding station. She stopped and returned at each whistle and, walking the square was notably improved. Even did it for a time without the lead attached. So, improvement.
Downside? Still can't get her to 'stay' when I have to leave. I have to be a bit agile, more than I am used to, to get out through the door alone. But that is for another day.
And, she totally destroyed the heavy velvet curtain which acts as a dogflap at the patio door, to allow them free to come and go as they please. I know it was not destructive behaviour, it was accidental colateral damage as a result of her desperate scrabbling at the door. I have another one which I can transfer but I will have to make sure it is raised and secured out of reach in future.
Post by Veem » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm
A positive day then? Apart from a shredded bit of velvet.
by Spardo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:43 pm
More mixed news. I thought that today, due to velvetcurtaingate yesterday, it would be best to let Enola have the run of the garden instead of being cooped up in the house while Tosca and I took our old folks' walk.
In order to do this I had to improve the gate to the forest and dug out of the vegetation a large pallet left by the builders a few years ago after a delivery of floor tiles. Secured it with rope in a temporary fashion then arranged with Fran to open the back door when she got 2 rings from me.
All went smoothly and as we were half way across the top field I heard Enola barking from the direction of the garden through the forest. 10 paces further on and I thought we had stumbled onto the Grand National course as Enola came flying past us. She had covered the 200 metres through the forest, another 200 up the back field and then another 175 to catch us while we did 10.
Nothing for it, I only had one lead, so we all had a treat and backtracked through the fields, though I headed for the centre and I let Tosca jog about while Enola stretched her legs. Trouble is she wanted to play, bowing before Tosca who ignored her so she commenced to running at full speed towards her swerving just before impact. So I whistled her back and put her on the extendable lead (the only one with me because it is used for Tosca returning down the lane) and we walked back to the entry to the forest, which is a rdv point. Both got their treats but then Tosca, not used to doing the walk this way round, started to trot off downhill in the direction of J-L's. It is surprising how fast she can go downhill and I was struggling to catch up, so I slipped the lock on the extendable and Enola raced down and swooped across her bows. I caught up and led them both back to the straight and narrow.
Downside? Enola missed her lead training and I have no idea how she got out of the garden, the temporary gate was still firmly in place, so perhaps she climbed it, or worse, found another exit. And I struggled to undo the knots to open it with 2 dogs pressing at my heels.
Upside? I seemed to have gained a bloody sheepdog, the way Enola rounded up Tosca was very impressive.
And back in the house after they had had their breakfast I did a bit of intensive 'stay' training on Enola. And twice she stayed while I took a step back.
by Spardo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:04 pm
The saga continues, I am up and I am down. Enola's training in some areas is coming well, 'au pied', stay, recall, but her youthful vigour and innocent disregard of Tosca's safety are giving me cause for concern. No less worrying is that the separation anxiety is showing no improvement, that I could accept, but on the contrary it is getting worse.
Having agreed with myself to take them out seperately, yesterday it was difficult to seperate them, one in one out today. As I could see Tosca's eagerness to go on her customary walk I didn't have the heart to refuse her the first go, so gave in and took them both again. Bad decision. In the field Enola's racing and swerving game was hair raising and, good as she is at it she isn't as good as she thinks she is, and at one point sent poor Tosca flying again. She needed me to get her back on her feet and at first appeared to only have 3 legs working. Eventually I got her going again albeit first with a light limp.
After that walk I decided to leave her in the garden while I was out on the trike, had some rubbish to drop off at the bottom of the hill and thought I would take the longer circuit this time. As I unloaded the bag into the bin there she was, racing down the hill towards me. She had been barking in the garden and had set off a few of the neighbours. Next to the bins was a garden with 2 Yorkies in. They were barking both at me and her, so she decided to join them, finding a hole hardly big enough for a Yorkie in the hedge and wriggled through. I set off back up the hill and she soon joined me and followed back into the garden. Some trike ride. The gate and its recent improvement, the extra mesh to close the gap she used before, was intact. But I didn't need a video to tell me how she got out. The 'Attention aux Chiens' sign next to the bell was broken in 2 with half of it lying on the ground. The top of the mesh fence was bent over and the green paint badly scratched. So she had clambered over a 1 metre fence, we have no defences left if she can do that. Most of the fence is in deep thicket, a mammoth task and way beyond my means to improve, so I am effectively a prisoner in my own house and garden.
This can't go on so this morning I was firm. Shut Tosca out and set about the internal defences against Enola's crashing desperation. Moved Tosca's cage across the middle of the veranda, hooked up the adjacent curtains as high as I could and shut the back door. Tosca and I had a lovely walk with her galloping despite stiiff knees (she takes steps with her front legs and hops her back ones together in a sort of fore and aft rocking motion) and I changed the route so we go out and back in the fields. No more lane walking so no need for lead at all (though I have it with me just in case).
Came back to find Enola on the door side of the cage, and when I let myself back in at the locked front door, she demonstrated how she did it by leaping back again, over the 1 metre high and almost the same deep cage from a standing start. The hooked up curtains lay in a heap on the floor. 3 down one to go. Also on the way she had managed to disconnect the ethernet cable from the Livebox. Counting small mercies that there wasn't more serious damage.
Effectively a prisoner in my own house and garden? Yes. I haven't been out on the trike for 4 days now and it looks increasingly as if I can't at all. I can take her in the car when I go out in it, but not on the trike. I can minimise the internal damage by pulling the cage across the doors so that she can't open them. I can leave the downed curtains where they are, they are not important. But that is not the point, I am at a loss to combat this extreme reaction to my absence. In 20 years of dealing with dogs of all sizes, ages and temperaments I have never come across this problem before. Maybe PAD will be willing to fund a specialist course, it would certainly pay them as in her present state she is un-rehomeable. Even if someone did take her on the chances of a return would be highly likely. Reading back between the lines I think this is the reason why her previous owner gave her to PAD.
Sorry about the doom and gloom, but even if nobody reads this it is part of my therapy. But just in case you have got this far, let me leave it on a happier note. I threw caution to the wind and, after shutting the tired but happy Tosca in the house, left with Enola, without lead, through the gate and the forest. She ran ahead, of course, but she was waiting for me at the rdv point at the entrance to the field. She had her treat and I waved her away to run. By the time I got to the top of the field she had only worried a few butterflies, ceratinly not me, each time she got close to the crop or the other forest I blew the signal and she came straight back. She stopped at the 2nd rdv, the corner joining the 2 fields and waited for her treat. Then, slightly more risky, because it is bounded on 2 sides by lanes, I let her run through and headed for the centre myself. She never needed the whistle, in this slightly strange envirnonment for her, she kept a weather eye on me and so, when I turned to head back to the corner again, she came straight back to walk alongside for a while. No whistle was troubled in this part of the walk. Again a bit of a risk coming back down to the forest entrance, because she could have gone straight on to J-L's, but trust rewarded she waited at the entrance. Then, still offlead, straight back home and into the garden. What a wonderful, lovable, trusty, obedient dog she is, if only..........no, I insist, happy notes only at this point.
In a couple of hours she will come with me to the vet to have her stitches out and I think I might take Tosca too. See if I can get something for her stiff joints. There are well recommended things on the market but they contain liver, and she is on a white meat only diet, so I'll see what the vet says first.
Post by Flaneur » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:05 pm
Well, she's a challenge, isn't she?
I imagine the most difficult thing for you is the effect on Tosca, though I am convinced we overthink and inappropriately anthropomorphise our pets' feelings. Your determination and patience are inspiring, and - I think I said before - if anyone can tame the atom bomb that is Enola, it's you!
Thanks for posting what's going on.
(I thought of you last evening when, during a tv programme, a farmer let his sow down a ramp which must have been 60 degrees; after finding him truffles, she seemed to get back in the pickup up the same ramp!)
Post by Spardo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:04 pm
Yes, I do worry about Tosca, but she must have bones of rubber given the times she has been tipped over. Enola the atom bomb, I lke that, the fallout is extensive.
Not sure what the connection is with the truffler, I did answer an advert once for truffle training for dogs, thought that might be a good skill for the Breton Spaniel I had at the time, but I must have been the only one who applied, because it was cancelled.
Oh I see, harking back to FFS and the ramp suggestion. Perhaps the pig had managed to snuffle a couple before the farmer pulled her away.
Anyway, back to the dogs. Got some pills for Tosca, lets hope thay have a good effect. Stiches out for Enola, a good girl she allowed me to lift her on the table and held very still while the lady did the necessary. But I was totally knackered after being forced to wear a mask during the whole operation.
Nipped next door to the Brico (no mask, obligatory handwash, I approve ) and got some very heavy duty rubber carpetting to use as a dogflap, I will cut it short of the floor and pin some lighter material to the bottom, easier for them to push through, and easy to replace if it gets damaged.
Finally, called in and had a chat with Sharon. They didn't notice her issues when she was with them but we came to the conclusion that I am not being alpha male enough and should ignore her completely when I return rather than being my normal nice self. Then wait a while until she has settled before making the move to invite her to me for cuddles and stuff.
Post by limousinlady » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:37 pm
I admire your perseverance and I'm sure Enola appreciates all the effort you are putting in on her behalf. Keep going and Bon courage.
Post by Veem » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:03 pm
I obviously failed to post correctly a while ago. Once we've had dinner, I'll try to remember what I said and have another go at posting.....
Post by Spardo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:30 pm
Bon appetit
by Spardo » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:34 am
Just before Vera last night, can't get enough of that programme though the wife hates her squeaky voice, I thought I would do a 5 second absence out of sight. Went to the gate, asked her to stay and went through it before she could follow. Walked 5 paces behind the hedge and the barking crying and scrabblind sounds started. So, walked back into view and she was halfway up the gate, and then, in a flash over it and running round me. I walked straight back through the gate but she didn't follow. She was running around the neighbours' gardens so I left the gate open and came back into the house. 15 minutes later I went out of the front door and blew the whistle. She was back in the house very soon so I went out and closed the gate.
So far so good, well not really, she should have stayed with me outside and come back in in the first place. But still, next adverts she was nowhere to be seen so I had a walk around the garden, whistled, and up to the big pallet reinforcing the forest gate, she came trotting back towards it from the outside but decided the return trip was more difficult so I opened it and let her in. This gave me a clue, I have some spare grillage and if I fix it to the top of each gate but allowing it6 to flop loose and inwards, perhaps that will deter her.
Nevertheless the only solution is cure, not prevention. I have just read a very long article by the ASPCA and 95% of it does not apply in our situation. But the bit that does, advocates exactly what I am doing now, calm out, calm in and cuddles and praise at my choosing after a short interval. Plus one other thing which I will try today. Freeze something really tasty into her Kong ball and leave it with her before I go out. Might Help.
One more thing. I awoke at 4.30 to find Fran asleep sitting in her chair at the table with the tv and
light still on. I might have raised my voice a little and both dogs were soon awake too. I calmed them both but then couldn't see Enola at first and then saw her on my bed. She readily left it for her own, twice, because she went back again after I had seen Fran to bed and turned the kitchen light off. I read Gone with the Wind for an hour or so in bed, slept a little and got up at 6.30. For once Enola didn't stir till I had the front shutters open and invited her out.
Not sure which of the 3 females I live with are the easiest to get along with, Tosca I reckon.
Post by Veem » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:48 am
I had dinner and then fell asleep ........... I think what I wrote was along the lines of Sharon perhaps being right about you needing to be the alpha male.
When we first had Blitz and Blaze, Blaze made it very clear, from the looks he gave me, that he had no intention of being subordinate - it almost verged on defiance. In every other way he was a perfect dog.
Then we started agility training and he soon grew accustomed to looking to me for commands and became more generally obedient. I think mental stimulation was the key. The more he engaged his brain, the better he became.
Good luck with securing the gate escape route ...............
Post by wilbro » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:47 am
Watching one of the dog trainer programmes re. problem dogs this chap Brian? had the owner go out of the house then return immediately. Doing this several times before extending the time in small increments. Each time on going back the dog being praised and given a treat. This continued until it could be left for long periods and the problem was cured. The animal was a trasher of soft furnishings and started doing it as soon as it's owner left but they had the benefit of a camersa installed in the house and were able to watch the dog on screen once they left the house as they carried out the training so better able to judge progress.
Sounds like you have maybe had a start at doing this but perseverance?
by Spardo » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:06 pm
Veem wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:48 am
I had dinner and then fell asleep ........... I think what I wrote was along the lines of Sharon perhaps being right about you needing to be the alpha male.
When we first had Blitz and Blaze, Blaze made it very clear, from the looks he gave me, that he had no intention of being subordinate - it almost verged on defiance. In every other way he was a perfect dog.
Then we started agility training and he soon grew accustomed to looking to me for commands and became more generally obedient. I think mental stimulation was the key. The more he engaged his brain, the better he became.
Good luck with securing the gate escape route ...............
The only difference with this one is she isn't dominant, but of course I have to assert myself more, and have already started. We had 2 wonderful walks this morning, what a shame I can't risk the 2 together but at least I am doubling on that exercise to make up a little with being denied the trike at the moment. Using the fields and forest out and back means there is never a need for the lead for either of them, though I have it with me just in case. I only used to use the lane return because it is good for their claws, will just have to start with the clippers instead now, when necessary.
Did an intensive stay practice at the door just now, after the 6th or 7th she let me out, so that is better. Then, on a short lead we walked round to the postbox and, while it wasn't to heel, she hardly pulled. But 'stay' is the obvious priority now, otherwise I'll never get out again.
She gets really stressed though. A short drive, 4 kms, to the garden centre to buy some heavy screws for the new dogflap, had her salivating beyond anything I have seen before, despite the presence of both me and Tosca. I have some Rescue Remedy but the squirter isn't working and the supplied glass dropper is too dangerous. My have to be a spoon if I can't find another one.
The forest gate is secured, I think, I merely turned that extra large pallet on end so that it no longer presents handy horizontal steps and is 2 metres in height. The front gate can wait a bit, if I can get her to stay to let me out of it, I will stay in view for a few seconds/minutes to see how that works.
@Wilbro. Yes, that is what I am trying but the main problem is getting out first. Also it is difficult to give a reward treat on return when the alpha thing demands I should ignore her initially. I think if I can get her to let me out, that is the time for a reward. My later return, albeit 10 seconds or 10 minutes, should be reward enough.
by Spardo » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:38 pm
I am determined to try the 'stay', escape then wait in full view outside the gate for 2 seconds, 10 seconds and increasing in and out of sight for days and weeks if necessary to make this work.
But, how the hell can I walk Tosca alone every morning without a nightmare performance? I set everything up today. Tosca outside, Enola and me inside. Chair strategically placed protecting vital computer stuff, curtain lifted high and out of the way, patio door locked, patio door blocked in the track with mole grips, frozen Kong ball with cheese in presented. At the front door, whatever is offered by way of treat to get her to stay, fails the moment the door handle clicks. I did make it out but then watched as the doors vibrated to the massive assault on them from within.
So I came back in, Fran is in bed so I encouraged Enola in there and shut the door behind me. Silence. I left by the front door and walked round past Fran's window to collect Tosca at the back. No sound from Fran's window but I could see the shelves with delicate china on and wondered if they might survive. They did, when we returned all was quiet and I let Enola out of the bedroom. No problem, no disruption. I wonder if it is because she couldn't see me leave through the solid rather than glazed door? Fran did say that she barked, and jumped on the bed a couple of times, and that she stroked her when she was there, so this will be repeated tomorrow. Unless of course she refuses to go in there.
Tomorrow I will set up the video. To see exactly what happens and for private viewing only, for Fran is not exactly the most reliable of witnesses. I have warned her several times about murdering me as she won't last 5 minutes in the witness box under the questioning of even the most useless of lawyers.
Upsides? When I got up this morning I saw both Tosca and Enola fast asleep together on the settee. First time ever.
Both individual walks were fine, enjoyable and without incident, if only Enola could resist running so close to Tosca we could do that together and get on with the serious training later.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:46 pm
Some dogs take a while to adjust to their new environment, especially when they are not the only dog. If you want some hands on advice I know an excellent dog behaviourist based in 24..Very tuned in with rescues. Helped some friends completely turn around their experience with their dog. PM me if you want her details. Otherwise I would say you and the dog are doing great. You are both still finding out about it other and eventually you will both discover a routine and that works for you both..and she will calm down.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:50 pm
btw..a stuffed frozen Kong works well for separation anxiety. Let her see you make it, give it to her as you leave. Of course it helps if the dog is food obsessed. Our dog used to watch us make it in the morning and then when we got ready to go out he would wait by the freezer for his treat. Kept him occupied for 10 minutes which was enough to get over the initial excitement.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:54 pm
Other thing..google ,'nothing in life is free' method. Very good with dogs who need help to understand boundaries. Basically to get what they want they have to do something first. So if they want fuss they have to sit and give you their paw...or wait 5 seconds before they eat..or wait until you go outside before they can. It doesn't change everything at once but little by little they get there
Post by Spardo » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:41 pm
Thanks for all the useful advice Lindal, but perhaps you missed this bit in my last post
frozen Kong ball with cheese in presented
but I'll admit that I missed out the letting her watch me make it bit.
By the way what do you recommend for the filling? I at first thought Nutella, I bought it for the mouse traps but we can't stand the stuff. Then I thought chocolate and checked the ingredients, so all I had then was cheese. She has enjoyed thawing and playing with it but it wasn't enough to persuade her to let me out this morning.
I will PM you though for your behaviourist though I did work with one with Phoenix some years ago, I think her name was Polly.
We used to foster for Phoenix before I started travelling with dogs and one in particular, a Breton/Collie X called Rupert was a real darling, but an inveterate escaper. Anyway, we couldn't shift him, he was with us for 8 months I think and Phoenix even advertised him in a paper and paid me to go all the way down to the Lot to show him to the only applicants. Fortunately he pissed all over their kitchen and, because I thought them totally unsuitable, and was glad that he had put them off.
Still desperate, Phoenix agreed to enrole us on a course with this Polly which she was running near here over several weekends. Just before the course was due to start we re-homed him and immediately took on a female Lab. I suggested to Phoenix that we keep the booking and I took the Lab along. Fine, but then she was adopted before the next weekend and we then went with a 3rd. Again, a swift adoption and, as we did not have another candidate straight away I asked if I could take my big Lurcher, Lurch, just to fill out the vacant days. He was a very non-dominant and lovable Greyhound 90% X Saluki 10% and we thought might be fun to associate with other dogs. As Greyhounds tend not to like sitting (something to do with the balance of their bodies) he was 'excused sitting' but otherwise did all the other things asked of him. On the final day there was a competition to find the champion dog. As I had taken several they said that it was not Lurch competing, but me. That is how I achieved the distinction of coming 2nd to an English Setter girl. Lurch was the star though, and to celebrate 'our' achievement, he sat down. The first time ever.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:21 pm
Sorry I missed your comment on the frozen Kong! I used those soft cheese triangles which I smeared into all the corners..and then wedged crunchies, treats, bits of chew..as much as could fit in, sealed with a big plug if cheese wedge!
We took Gremlin to a class with Polly. It was her that told us about 'nothing in life is free'. He used to scare all the other people in the class, although they got to appreciate him in the end.
I sent you a link to the behaviourist Reija. She also works with Phoenix.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:28 pm
ps..we fostered a dog for Phoenix that took a few months to find a home( long story) . One couple came to visit and said ',Does he stay..I don't want a dog who runs away' This dog had never run off in the whole time he was with us, but he took one look at the woman's long dress and high heels and turned and ran off all the way to our next door neighbour, who he knew quite well! That was a no then..Fortunately someone took him a few weeks later and he lived happily ever after!
Post by Spardo » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:24 am
We don't eat soft cheese but I might pick some up next shopping day on Tuesday, what I put in yesterday was a solid block of Cantal Jeune, the only cheese we eat and which forms, with occasional ham skin, all the treats which they love. My feeling is that the treat hasn't been invented yet that will deter Enola, I tried again this evening to give her a 5 minute 'stay' exercise but Tosca noticed that treats were on offer and came and got in the way.
I knew I recognised the 'nothing in life is free' mantra, but couldn't remember where it came from.
Thanks for the link, I have sent an email to her with brief details, tried 3 times but couldn't get past that bloody captcha code.
Post by Veem » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:27 am
I've emailed you details of another trainer who I think is not far from you. Julie used to live near us but moved down your way a couple of years ago. Highly recommended. She's also a very reputable breeder who shows her dogs at top competition level.
by Spardo » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:41 am
Yes, got that thanks Viv, if I have identified her correctly she is down to the south of Mussidan. Once I am sure I have the right person I will email her to see if she has any suggestions. No suggestion not already tried will be turned away.
This morning the usual performance but in the end I managed to persuade Enola to go into Fran's bedroom voluntarily and there was no audible, or later visible, ruckus or damage. I did give her some Rescue Remedy but will have to devise a better method of delivery, I am not sure she got that much. I think a well loved treat soaked on a spoon is the way to go.
The walks themselves were fine. Both well behaved and enjoyable. Enola races around as usual but does respond to the whistle well and between us we have accidentally discovered a simple code. Again, no leads needed at all and, after the last rdv treat at the entrance to the forest, she heads back home immediately to the accompaniment of the command 'home'.
Later I will try to get out on the trike, I have really been missing that, it has been almost a week. Maybe a short one and maybe with her?
Post by Spardo » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:04 pm
I think I may have something with this bedroom thing. Not that it is ideal locking a dog in one room, I would only do it if she had company, but I did go out on the trike this afternoon for 20 minutes or so. I gave her her Kong ball with cheese filling and she trotted in quite happily. She didn't even see me leave and I listened for a while outside the door. Silence, On my return I passed under that window (we live in a bungalow), silence.
I am almost convinced that it is because she can't see me leave the house, just the room, although this afternoon not even that because she was so taken with the Kong.
It still doesn't get us leaving the house or garden with her in view, but it may be a start.
BTW I did check her walking with the trike in the garden before I went. Definitely not ready for that yet, one sight of a butterfly and I will be taking off.
It is chippy night tonight, rather than go through the various escape mechanisms I'll take her with me and give her a walk round while the fish are being cooked. They do frozen meat pies too, so they'll do for Wednesday. tomorrow is shopping day so I will have fresh meat to cook
She certainly doesn't look as though she had fairly major surgery recently!
Interestingly, she didn't bark at your neighbour. She seems to be getting there on the separation problem too.
Post by Spardo » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:15 pm
Best of all though was her instant recall to the whistle each time. Much better than shouting and more effective.
Either she is so daft she doesn't realise where her best interests lie, or she is super intelligent and is making a mug out of me. This morning, as I was preparing for a re-run of yesterday's experiment, she went out of the gate as normal but, instead of hanging around and obeying my command to re-enter she disappeared to a neighbour's garden and would not return. not for the whistle or voice. I had to go there and fetch her back by hand.
Very discouraging, the first time she has put a foot wrong. It was because she was eating food left out for the cats. I knew she was food orientated, from advanced information, and in many ways that is a good thing, easier to train. But this total refusal I can only see as a setback.
Even harder to bear after our first walk in the back and top fields. The grass has been baled and removed now, so a perfect training ground again. She ran with the un-held lunge trailing behind like the wind. I can't believe how fast she is, but each time I blew the whistle she came straight back like an arrow. Even the almost deaf Tosca seems to have heard it, as she came running back from afar too. But she may have just got a clue from Enola's action.
Euphoria. And now this.
Post by Veem » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:58 pm
First, don't be disheartened. They say it takes 7 correct repetitions for a horse to learn a new behaviour - good or bad (and maybe many more for a dog). Second, look at where the video showed potential for things to go wrong.
This morning, as I was preparing for a re-run of yesterday's experiment, she went out of the gate as normal but, instead of hanging around and obeying my command to re-enter she disappeared to a neighbour's garden and would not return.
I suggest it might be that 'she went out of the gate as normal'. There could be loads of potential for things to go wrong immediately after that. Perhaps you might consider training her to wait until you have gone through the gate (or the entrance to any new space) and being 'invited' to join you.
Our dachsie is very food driven and it has taken years to 'persuade' him to stop polishing off any catfood left outside, and only then if you get into his space and rebuke him. Given half a chance if he thinks he can get away with it, he becomes totally deaf and finishes the lot
Post by SW31girl » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:12 pm
I can only use cats as an example but I always think they train us, not the other way round. She sounds super intelligent so yes, she will work out how to play you as a mug.
Post by Spardo » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:18 pm
Veem wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:58 pm
First, don't be disheartened. They say it takes 7 correct repetitions for a horse to learn a new behaviour - good or bad (and maybe many more for a dog). Second, look at where the video showed potential for things to go wrong.
This morning, as I was preparing for a re-run of yesterday's experiment, she went out of the gate as normal but, instead of hanging around and obeying my command to re-enter she disappeared to a neighbour's garden and would not return.
I suggest it might be that 'she went out of the gate as normal'. There could be loads of potential for things to go wrong immediately after that. Perhaps you might consider training her to wait until you have gone through the gate (or the entrance to any new space) and being 'invited' to join you.
Our dachsie is very food driven and it has taken years to 'persuade' him to stop polishing off any catfood left outside, and only then if you get into his space and rebuke him. Given half a chance if he thinks he can get away with it, he becomes totally deaf and finishes the lot.
You are right on the money there, Veem, I should have known as I even said myself earlier in this thread that I was becoming too over confident. 'Stay' is an ongoing problem for her, almost everything else is coming along nicely. What has fooled me is that 'stay' when her bowl goes to the floor, is perfect, she will not move towards it until the command is given. I don't even have to use the word anymore, she waits for the command anyway now.
Back to basics I think. But thank you for your 'first' sentence. I was getting a bit downhearted, but I feel better now.
Post by Le Démerdeur » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:07 pm
That is ingrained pack behaviour when it comes to only eating the kill after AlphaSpardo has eaten his and given permission.
The "stay!" command should be a transferable skill.
Says he who hasn't owned a dog for 50 years
Post by Spardo » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:17 pm
As it happens, in this house the pack eats before the Alphas. This is an administrative issue though. I like to take my time over a meal and don't want to be doing someone else's at 10pm.
Pack time is 6pm, pack pestering time begins after about 4.30pm. I have developed a stony stare. They, principally Tosca, understand but learned behaviour has passed the 2nd string pester position on to Enola, have also learned that each visit is only worth a few seconds at most. But neither seem to have learned that pester never, ever, is successful.
Hope springs eternal.
Post by Spardo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:10 pm
Well a couple of days of light activity and no training. More than one reason for this, I have been a bit depressed about one or two things and Enola is only a part of it. There was even a point yesterday when I had the thought 'this isn't working, I may have to ask Mary to have her back at Sharon's'. I can do this at any time, she is still just a foster.
The reason for this was a horrific moment as we went out for the walk. Tosca as usual set off plodding up the path towards the forest gate. Enola, all excited, raced in the opposite direction before turning and overtaking me at great speed, but Tosca was blocking the way so Enola did a mighty leap right over the top of her. Only trouble was she landed short, on top of Tosca, mainly her head. Poor Tosca was flattened, head and body flat on the ground and all 4 legs spread out sideways. A mixture of anger and concern overcame me and I rushed to help Tosca back to her feet. She wasn't hurt, had made no sound, and, once reconstituted, carried happily on her way.
There was a second reason. As we neared the gate I held Enola on a very short lead so that Tosca could go through first. A very difficult task and in all the confusion forgot to shut the gate afterwards. Once back from the walk, with Enola pulling very hard on the lead, I noticed after a time that she was no longer in the garden. She eventually came racing back to the main gate from Jean-Louis' garden again. So much for separation anxiety, obviously only applies when I am doing the separating. But it is more serious, it means she has made the link between the forest and field directly to J-L's garden. Lots to eat there.
So, much to think about, especially as I didn't think after my feverish night that I would be taking them anywhere today. But after feeling a bit better I could see the light. I can't exercise both dogs together and train one of them at the same time. So, with Fran on 'earlies' today (first time out of bed in 36 hours) the difficult task of leaving Enola in the house while I took Tosca for our traditional walk, with no danger of her being bowled over on the way. Worked out quite well, Fran said that the tantrum was not as bad as usual. After our return, Tosca in the house, door closed because I was intending to bring Enola straight back from the field so was leaving the gate open and didn't want her following me, and Enola through the woods on a 1 metre lead. The boring intonation 'au pied' all the way and she didn't do too badly, pulling wise. Then a treat and off the lead at the edge of the field and she sat and stayed momentarily before I waved my hand and sent her away. I allowed her to run and jump the length and breadth before bringing her back with the whistle for a treat. One setback again, she disappeared into the far wood unheeding the whistle, and on returning at high speed went straight past me and down to J-L's. All I could do is walk in the opposite direction. This works with some dogs because they think you are abandoning them and had been used to great effect with my deaf ones. But that presupposes that the dog can see you and in this case she couldn't so I had just to wait on her whim.
Then, back on the lead we had 15 minutes of 'the square'. Walkng with the dog by left thigh with loop of the lead in right hand and left hand holding it loosely close to the dog. Between that hand and the dog it should hang down in a 'J'. Normally it doesn't and the dog pulls somewhat. So a swift turn to the right at the same time dropping the left hand and tugging the right hand across the body. Together with the command this jerks the dog in the new direction, Repeat, endlessly and boringly until the dog again walks with a slack 'J'. Big celebrations and treats. She was better at it by the time we went home and she did not try and pull me through the forest. Petit a petit.
by suein56 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:34 pm
You are getting there .. both of you
She is making excellent progress and you seem to be doing well too
Post by Veem » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:45 pm
Sorry to hear you have been unwell. In the present climate, it must be incredibly scary to think you might have CV19 symptoms.
Petit a petit though, as you say - or baby steps. She was perhaps full of pent up energy if you haven't been able to walk for a couple of days. I don't think you've said how old she is. You did say she'd been used to going for walks tied to her previous owner's bicycle, so perhaps she hasn't had much time off lead at all and it's blowing her brain!
You've both made huge progress, considering this is only the 18th day she's been with you.
Hoping your next walk gives you something good to tell us all.
Post by Flaneur » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:58 pm
Chin up, Spardo (in case you're still a bit down): there are loads of people here rooting for you and Enola and Tosca!
Post by limousinlady » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:06 pm
Definitely! & Fran
Post by Spardo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:07 pm
Once again, a big thank you to you all. And to your query about her age Veem, she was born in April last year so that makes her about 14 months. I have never had a dog this young before, apart from the Christmas puppy when I was about 9 or 10 I suppose, and she is a revelation to me. Apart from the occasional setbacks, mainly my fault for over estimating her capabilities and speed of learning, it has been great fun.
Tomorrow, we start on the new regime which was largely successful today, one dog at a time. And perhaps some more tasty treats than the Cantal Jeune and occasional ham rind that she has been getting.
One lousy job is now finished. Because of Tosca's liver problem which means only white meat, they both get either sardines or chicken. Last week I bought several tins of sardines in olive oil with pimentos by mistake and realising the hot chillies (I dipped a finger in to check the strength. WOW!) were not suitable for them I have been rooting out the fish and washing them clean of all else. Eurgh! Last tin was today and I will make sure it is tomato sauce or tournesol in future
Post by Flaneur » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:20 pm
I think you need to set up a Zoom call, Spardo!
Post by Spardo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:33 pm
Get a hold of yourself, I've only just mastered Skype, and that every 2 weeks or so and only to my son.
Anyway, I've seen how she rushes around on her own, I'm not letting her loose on the laptop
Post by Flaneur » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:35 pm
Fair enough - Timmy strolls across the keyboard and all of a sudden everything is upside down, full-screen and I have no idea how to fix it!
Post by Spardo » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:01 pm
Second day of one to one. As Tosca was resting in her cage and did not seem fussed about stirring I took Enola to the field first. Ran and jumped as before, perhaps not quite so energetic, but still quicker than anything before, my dear Lira the Greyhound excepted. I do wonder if there isn't something of that in the mix, Beauceronne, Dobermann, Levrier too perhaps? She has the body, deep chest and very slender waist of Lira, though unlike her I can't quite get my 2 hands to touch all the way round, and also those long legs.
Anyway, there was no disappearing into the woods today, and no expedition to J-L's cat feeding station. She stopped and returned at each whistle and, walking the square was notably improved. Even did it for a time without the lead attached. So, improvement.
Downside? Still can't get her to 'stay' when I have to leave. I have to be a bit agile, more than I am used to, to get out through the door alone. But that is for another day.
And, she totally destroyed the heavy velvet curtain which acts as a dogflap at the patio door, to allow them free to come and go as they please. I know it was not destructive behaviour, it was accidental colateral damage as a result of her desperate scrabbling at the door. I have another one which I can transfer but I will have to make sure it is raised and secured out of reach in future.
Post by Veem » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm
A positive day then? Apart from a shredded bit of velvet.
by Spardo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:43 pm
More mixed news. I thought that today, due to velvetcurtaingate yesterday, it would be best to let Enola have the run of the garden instead of being cooped up in the house while Tosca and I took our old folks' walk.
In order to do this I had to improve the gate to the forest and dug out of the vegetation a large pallet left by the builders a few years ago after a delivery of floor tiles. Secured it with rope in a temporary fashion then arranged with Fran to open the back door when she got 2 rings from me.
All went smoothly and as we were half way across the top field I heard Enola barking from the direction of the garden through the forest. 10 paces further on and I thought we had stumbled onto the Grand National course as Enola came flying past us. She had covered the 200 metres through the forest, another 200 up the back field and then another 175 to catch us while we did 10.
Nothing for it, I only had one lead, so we all had a treat and backtracked through the fields, though I headed for the centre and I let Tosca jog about while Enola stretched her legs. Trouble is she wanted to play, bowing before Tosca who ignored her so she commenced to running at full speed towards her swerving just before impact. So I whistled her back and put her on the extendable lead (the only one with me because it is used for Tosca returning down the lane) and we walked back to the entry to the forest, which is a rdv point. Both got their treats but then Tosca, not used to doing the walk this way round, started to trot off downhill in the direction of J-L's. It is surprising how fast she can go downhill and I was struggling to catch up, so I slipped the lock on the extendable and Enola raced down and swooped across her bows. I caught up and led them both back to the straight and narrow.
Downside? Enola missed her lead training and I have no idea how she got out of the garden, the temporary gate was still firmly in place, so perhaps she climbed it, or worse, found another exit. And I struggled to undo the knots to open it with 2 dogs pressing at my heels.
Upside? I seemed to have gained a bloody sheepdog, the way Enola rounded up Tosca was very impressive.
And back in the house after they had had their breakfast I did a bit of intensive 'stay' training on Enola. And twice she stayed while I took a step back.
by Spardo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:04 pm
The saga continues, I am up and I am down. Enola's training in some areas is coming well, 'au pied', stay, recall, but her youthful vigour and innocent disregard of Tosca's safety are giving me cause for concern. No less worrying is that the separation anxiety is showing no improvement, that I could accept, but on the contrary it is getting worse.
Having agreed with myself to take them out seperately, yesterday it was difficult to seperate them, one in one out today. As I could see Tosca's eagerness to go on her customary walk I didn't have the heart to refuse her the first go, so gave in and took them both again. Bad decision. In the field Enola's racing and swerving game was hair raising and, good as she is at it she isn't as good as she thinks she is, and at one point sent poor Tosca flying again. She needed me to get her back on her feet and at first appeared to only have 3 legs working. Eventually I got her going again albeit first with a light limp.
After that walk I decided to leave her in the garden while I was out on the trike, had some rubbish to drop off at the bottom of the hill and thought I would take the longer circuit this time. As I unloaded the bag into the bin there she was, racing down the hill towards me. She had been barking in the garden and had set off a few of the neighbours. Next to the bins was a garden with 2 Yorkies in. They were barking both at me and her, so she decided to join them, finding a hole hardly big enough for a Yorkie in the hedge and wriggled through. I set off back up the hill and she soon joined me and followed back into the garden. Some trike ride. The gate and its recent improvement, the extra mesh to close the gap she used before, was intact. But I didn't need a video to tell me how she got out. The 'Attention aux Chiens' sign next to the bell was broken in 2 with half of it lying on the ground. The top of the mesh fence was bent over and the green paint badly scratched. So she had clambered over a 1 metre fence, we have no defences left if she can do that. Most of the fence is in deep thicket, a mammoth task and way beyond my means to improve, so I am effectively a prisoner in my own house and garden.
This can't go on so this morning I was firm. Shut Tosca out and set about the internal defences against Enola's crashing desperation. Moved Tosca's cage across the middle of the veranda, hooked up the adjacent curtains as high as I could and shut the back door. Tosca and I had a lovely walk with her galloping despite stiiff knees (she takes steps with her front legs and hops her back ones together in a sort of fore and aft rocking motion) and I changed the route so we go out and back in the fields. No more lane walking so no need for lead at all (though I have it with me just in case).
Came back to find Enola on the door side of the cage, and when I let myself back in at the locked front door, she demonstrated how she did it by leaping back again, over the 1 metre high and almost the same deep cage from a standing start. The hooked up curtains lay in a heap on the floor. 3 down one to go. Also on the way she had managed to disconnect the ethernet cable from the Livebox. Counting small mercies that there wasn't more serious damage.
Effectively a prisoner in my own house and garden? Yes. I haven't been out on the trike for 4 days now and it looks increasingly as if I can't at all. I can take her in the car when I go out in it, but not on the trike. I can minimise the internal damage by pulling the cage across the doors so that she can't open them. I can leave the downed curtains where they are, they are not important. But that is not the point, I am at a loss to combat this extreme reaction to my absence. In 20 years of dealing with dogs of all sizes, ages and temperaments I have never come across this problem before. Maybe PAD will be willing to fund a specialist course, it would certainly pay them as in her present state she is un-rehomeable. Even if someone did take her on the chances of a return would be highly likely. Reading back between the lines I think this is the reason why her previous owner gave her to PAD.
Sorry about the doom and gloom, but even if nobody reads this it is part of my therapy. But just in case you have got this far, let me leave it on a happier note. I threw caution to the wind and, after shutting the tired but happy Tosca in the house, left with Enola, without lead, through the gate and the forest. She ran ahead, of course, but she was waiting for me at the rdv point at the entrance to the field. She had her treat and I waved her away to run. By the time I got to the top of the field she had only worried a few butterflies, ceratinly not me, each time she got close to the crop or the other forest I blew the signal and she came straight back. She stopped at the 2nd rdv, the corner joining the 2 fields and waited for her treat. Then, slightly more risky, because it is bounded on 2 sides by lanes, I let her run through and headed for the centre myself. She never needed the whistle, in this slightly strange envirnonment for her, she kept a weather eye on me and so, when I turned to head back to the corner again, she came straight back to walk alongside for a while. No whistle was troubled in this part of the walk. Again a bit of a risk coming back down to the forest entrance, because she could have gone straight on to J-L's, but trust rewarded she waited at the entrance. Then, still offlead, straight back home and into the garden. What a wonderful, lovable, trusty, obedient dog she is, if only..........no, I insist, happy notes only at this point.
In a couple of hours she will come with me to the vet to have her stitches out and I think I might take Tosca too. See if I can get something for her stiff joints. There are well recommended things on the market but they contain liver, and she is on a white meat only diet, so I'll see what the vet says first.
Post by Flaneur » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:05 pm
Well, she's a challenge, isn't she?
I imagine the most difficult thing for you is the effect on Tosca, though I am convinced we overthink and inappropriately anthropomorphise our pets' feelings. Your determination and patience are inspiring, and - I think I said before - if anyone can tame the atom bomb that is Enola, it's you!
Thanks for posting what's going on.
(I thought of you last evening when, during a tv programme, a farmer let his sow down a ramp which must have been 60 degrees; after finding him truffles, she seemed to get back in the pickup up the same ramp!)
Post by Spardo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:04 pm
Yes, I do worry about Tosca, but she must have bones of rubber given the times she has been tipped over. Enola the atom bomb, I lke that, the fallout is extensive.
Not sure what the connection is with the truffler, I did answer an advert once for truffle training for dogs, thought that might be a good skill for the Breton Spaniel I had at the time, but I must have been the only one who applied, because it was cancelled.
Oh I see, harking back to FFS and the ramp suggestion. Perhaps the pig had managed to snuffle a couple before the farmer pulled her away.
Anyway, back to the dogs. Got some pills for Tosca, lets hope thay have a good effect. Stiches out for Enola, a good girl she allowed me to lift her on the table and held very still while the lady did the necessary. But I was totally knackered after being forced to wear a mask during the whole operation.
Nipped next door to the Brico (no mask, obligatory handwash, I approve ) and got some very heavy duty rubber carpetting to use as a dogflap, I will cut it short of the floor and pin some lighter material to the bottom, easier for them to push through, and easy to replace if it gets damaged.
Finally, called in and had a chat with Sharon. They didn't notice her issues when she was with them but we came to the conclusion that I am not being alpha male enough and should ignore her completely when I return rather than being my normal nice self. Then wait a while until she has settled before making the move to invite her to me for cuddles and stuff.
Post by limousinlady » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:37 pm
I admire your perseverance and I'm sure Enola appreciates all the effort you are putting in on her behalf. Keep going and Bon courage.
Post by Veem » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:03 pm
I obviously failed to post correctly a while ago. Once we've had dinner, I'll try to remember what I said and have another go at posting.....
Post by Spardo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:30 pm
Bon appetit
by Spardo » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:34 am
Just before Vera last night, can't get enough of that programme though the wife hates her squeaky voice, I thought I would do a 5 second absence out of sight. Went to the gate, asked her to stay and went through it before she could follow. Walked 5 paces behind the hedge and the barking crying and scrabblind sounds started. So, walked back into view and she was halfway up the gate, and then, in a flash over it and running round me. I walked straight back through the gate but she didn't follow. She was running around the neighbours' gardens so I left the gate open and came back into the house. 15 minutes later I went out of the front door and blew the whistle. She was back in the house very soon so I went out and closed the gate.
So far so good, well not really, she should have stayed with me outside and come back in in the first place. But still, next adverts she was nowhere to be seen so I had a walk around the garden, whistled, and up to the big pallet reinforcing the forest gate, she came trotting back towards it from the outside but decided the return trip was more difficult so I opened it and let her in. This gave me a clue, I have some spare grillage and if I fix it to the top of each gate but allowing it6 to flop loose and inwards, perhaps that will deter her.
Nevertheless the only solution is cure, not prevention. I have just read a very long article by the ASPCA and 95% of it does not apply in our situation. But the bit that does, advocates exactly what I am doing now, calm out, calm in and cuddles and praise at my choosing after a short interval. Plus one other thing which I will try today. Freeze something really tasty into her Kong ball and leave it with her before I go out. Might Help.
One more thing. I awoke at 4.30 to find Fran asleep sitting in her chair at the table with the tv and
light still on. I might have raised my voice a little and both dogs were soon awake too. I calmed them both but then couldn't see Enola at first and then saw her on my bed. She readily left it for her own, twice, because she went back again after I had seen Fran to bed and turned the kitchen light off. I read Gone with the Wind for an hour or so in bed, slept a little and got up at 6.30. For once Enola didn't stir till I had the front shutters open and invited her out.
Not sure which of the 3 females I live with are the easiest to get along with, Tosca I reckon.
Post by Veem » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:48 am
I had dinner and then fell asleep ........... I think what I wrote was along the lines of Sharon perhaps being right about you needing to be the alpha male.
When we first had Blitz and Blaze, Blaze made it very clear, from the looks he gave me, that he had no intention of being subordinate - it almost verged on defiance. In every other way he was a perfect dog.
Then we started agility training and he soon grew accustomed to looking to me for commands and became more generally obedient. I think mental stimulation was the key. The more he engaged his brain, the better he became.
Good luck with securing the gate escape route ...............
Post by wilbro » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:47 am
Watching one of the dog trainer programmes re. problem dogs this chap Brian? had the owner go out of the house then return immediately. Doing this several times before extending the time in small increments. Each time on going back the dog being praised and given a treat. This continued until it could be left for long periods and the problem was cured. The animal was a trasher of soft furnishings and started doing it as soon as it's owner left but they had the benefit of a camersa installed in the house and were able to watch the dog on screen once they left the house as they carried out the training so better able to judge progress.
Sounds like you have maybe had a start at doing this but perseverance?
by Spardo » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:06 pm
Veem wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:48 am
I had dinner and then fell asleep ........... I think what I wrote was along the lines of Sharon perhaps being right about you needing to be the alpha male.
When we first had Blitz and Blaze, Blaze made it very clear, from the looks he gave me, that he had no intention of being subordinate - it almost verged on defiance. In every other way he was a perfect dog.
Then we started agility training and he soon grew accustomed to looking to me for commands and became more generally obedient. I think mental stimulation was the key. The more he engaged his brain, the better he became.
Good luck with securing the gate escape route ...............
The only difference with this one is she isn't dominant, but of course I have to assert myself more, and have already started. We had 2 wonderful walks this morning, what a shame I can't risk the 2 together but at least I am doubling on that exercise to make up a little with being denied the trike at the moment. Using the fields and forest out and back means there is never a need for the lead for either of them, though I have it with me just in case. I only used to use the lane return because it is good for their claws, will just have to start with the clippers instead now, when necessary.
Did an intensive stay practice at the door just now, after the 6th or 7th she let me out, so that is better. Then, on a short lead we walked round to the postbox and, while it wasn't to heel, she hardly pulled. But 'stay' is the obvious priority now, otherwise I'll never get out again.
She gets really stressed though. A short drive, 4 kms, to the garden centre to buy some heavy screws for the new dogflap, had her salivating beyond anything I have seen before, despite the presence of both me and Tosca. I have some Rescue Remedy but the squirter isn't working and the supplied glass dropper is too dangerous. My have to be a spoon if I can't find another one.
The forest gate is secured, I think, I merely turned that extra large pallet on end so that it no longer presents handy horizontal steps and is 2 metres in height. The front gate can wait a bit, if I can get her to stay to let me out of it, I will stay in view for a few seconds/minutes to see how that works.
@Wilbro. Yes, that is what I am trying but the main problem is getting out first. Also it is difficult to give a reward treat on return when the alpha thing demands I should ignore her initially. I think if I can get her to let me out, that is the time for a reward. My later return, albeit 10 seconds or 10 minutes, should be reward enough.
by Spardo » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:38 pm
I am determined to try the 'stay', escape then wait in full view outside the gate for 2 seconds, 10 seconds and increasing in and out of sight for days and weeks if necessary to make this work.
But, how the hell can I walk Tosca alone every morning without a nightmare performance? I set everything up today. Tosca outside, Enola and me inside. Chair strategically placed protecting vital computer stuff, curtain lifted high and out of the way, patio door locked, patio door blocked in the track with mole grips, frozen Kong ball with cheese in presented. At the front door, whatever is offered by way of treat to get her to stay, fails the moment the door handle clicks. I did make it out but then watched as the doors vibrated to the massive assault on them from within.
So I came back in, Fran is in bed so I encouraged Enola in there and shut the door behind me. Silence. I left by the front door and walked round past Fran's window to collect Tosca at the back. No sound from Fran's window but I could see the shelves with delicate china on and wondered if they might survive. They did, when we returned all was quiet and I let Enola out of the bedroom. No problem, no disruption. I wonder if it is because she couldn't see me leave through the solid rather than glazed door? Fran did say that she barked, and jumped on the bed a couple of times, and that she stroked her when she was there, so this will be repeated tomorrow. Unless of course she refuses to go in there.
Tomorrow I will set up the video. To see exactly what happens and for private viewing only, for Fran is not exactly the most reliable of witnesses. I have warned her several times about murdering me as she won't last 5 minutes in the witness box under the questioning of even the most useless of lawyers.
Upsides? When I got up this morning I saw both Tosca and Enola fast asleep together on the settee. First time ever.
Both individual walks were fine, enjoyable and without incident, if only Enola could resist running so close to Tosca we could do that together and get on with the serious training later.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:46 pm
Some dogs take a while to adjust to their new environment, especially when they are not the only dog. If you want some hands on advice I know an excellent dog behaviourist based in 24..Very tuned in with rescues. Helped some friends completely turn around their experience with their dog. PM me if you want her details. Otherwise I would say you and the dog are doing great. You are both still finding out about it other and eventually you will both discover a routine and that works for you both..and she will calm down.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:50 pm
btw..a stuffed frozen Kong works well for separation anxiety. Let her see you make it, give it to her as you leave. Of course it helps if the dog is food obsessed. Our dog used to watch us make it in the morning and then when we got ready to go out he would wait by the freezer for his treat. Kept him occupied for 10 minutes which was enough to get over the initial excitement.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:54 pm
Other thing..google ,'nothing in life is free' method. Very good with dogs who need help to understand boundaries. Basically to get what they want they have to do something first. So if they want fuss they have to sit and give you their paw...or wait 5 seconds before they eat..or wait until you go outside before they can. It doesn't change everything at once but little by little they get there
Post by Spardo » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:41 pm
Thanks for all the useful advice Lindal, but perhaps you missed this bit in my last post
frozen Kong ball with cheese in presented
but I'll admit that I missed out the letting her watch me make it bit.
By the way what do you recommend for the filling? I at first thought Nutella, I bought it for the mouse traps but we can't stand the stuff. Then I thought chocolate and checked the ingredients, so all I had then was cheese. She has enjoyed thawing and playing with it but it wasn't enough to persuade her to let me out this morning.
I will PM you though for your behaviourist though I did work with one with Phoenix some years ago, I think her name was Polly.
We used to foster for Phoenix before I started travelling with dogs and one in particular, a Breton/Collie X called Rupert was a real darling, but an inveterate escaper. Anyway, we couldn't shift him, he was with us for 8 months I think and Phoenix even advertised him in a paper and paid me to go all the way down to the Lot to show him to the only applicants. Fortunately he pissed all over their kitchen and, because I thought them totally unsuitable, and was glad that he had put them off.
Still desperate, Phoenix agreed to enrole us on a course with this Polly which she was running near here over several weekends. Just before the course was due to start we re-homed him and immediately took on a female Lab. I suggested to Phoenix that we keep the booking and I took the Lab along. Fine, but then she was adopted before the next weekend and we then went with a 3rd. Again, a swift adoption and, as we did not have another candidate straight away I asked if I could take my big Lurcher, Lurch, just to fill out the vacant days. He was a very non-dominant and lovable Greyhound 90% X Saluki 10% and we thought might be fun to associate with other dogs. As Greyhounds tend not to like sitting (something to do with the balance of their bodies) he was 'excused sitting' but otherwise did all the other things asked of him. On the final day there was a competition to find the champion dog. As I had taken several they said that it was not Lurch competing, but me. That is how I achieved the distinction of coming 2nd to an English Setter girl. Lurch was the star though, and to celebrate 'our' achievement, he sat down. The first time ever.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:21 pm
Sorry I missed your comment on the frozen Kong! I used those soft cheese triangles which I smeared into all the corners..and then wedged crunchies, treats, bits of chew..as much as could fit in, sealed with a big plug if cheese wedge!
We took Gremlin to a class with Polly. It was her that told us about 'nothing in life is free'. He used to scare all the other people in the class, although they got to appreciate him in the end.
I sent you a link to the behaviourist Reija. She also works with Phoenix.
Post by lindal1000 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:28 pm
ps..we fostered a dog for Phoenix that took a few months to find a home( long story) . One couple came to visit and said ',Does he stay..I don't want a dog who runs away' This dog had never run off in the whole time he was with us, but he took one look at the woman's long dress and high heels and turned and ran off all the way to our next door neighbour, who he knew quite well! That was a no then..Fortunately someone took him a few weeks later and he lived happily ever after!
Post by Spardo » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:24 am
We don't eat soft cheese but I might pick some up next shopping day on Tuesday, what I put in yesterday was a solid block of Cantal Jeune, the only cheese we eat and which forms, with occasional ham skin, all the treats which they love. My feeling is that the treat hasn't been invented yet that will deter Enola, I tried again this evening to give her a 5 minute 'stay' exercise but Tosca noticed that treats were on offer and came and got in the way.
I knew I recognised the 'nothing in life is free' mantra, but couldn't remember where it came from.
Thanks for the link, I have sent an email to her with brief details, tried 3 times but couldn't get past that bloody captcha code.
Post by Veem » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:27 am
I've emailed you details of another trainer who I think is not far from you. Julie used to live near us but moved down your way a couple of years ago. Highly recommended. She's also a very reputable breeder who shows her dogs at top competition level.
by Spardo » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:41 am
Yes, got that thanks Viv, if I have identified her correctly she is down to the south of Mussidan. Once I am sure I have the right person I will email her to see if she has any suggestions. No suggestion not already tried will be turned away.
This morning the usual performance but in the end I managed to persuade Enola to go into Fran's bedroom voluntarily and there was no audible, or later visible, ruckus or damage. I did give her some Rescue Remedy but will have to devise a better method of delivery, I am not sure she got that much. I think a well loved treat soaked on a spoon is the way to go.
The walks themselves were fine. Both well behaved and enjoyable. Enola races around as usual but does respond to the whistle well and between us we have accidentally discovered a simple code. Again, no leads needed at all and, after the last rdv treat at the entrance to the forest, she heads back home immediately to the accompaniment of the command 'home'.
Later I will try to get out on the trike, I have really been missing that, it has been almost a week. Maybe a short one and maybe with her?
Post by Spardo » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:04 pm
I think I may have something with this bedroom thing. Not that it is ideal locking a dog in one room, I would only do it if she had company, but I did go out on the trike this afternoon for 20 minutes or so. I gave her her Kong ball with cheese filling and she trotted in quite happily. She didn't even see me leave and I listened for a while outside the door. Silence, On my return I passed under that window (we live in a bungalow), silence.
I am almost convinced that it is because she can't see me leave the house, just the room, although this afternoon not even that because she was so taken with the Kong.
It still doesn't get us leaving the house or garden with her in view, but it may be a start.
BTW I did check her walking with the trike in the garden before I went. Definitely not ready for that yet, one sight of a butterfly and I will be taking off.
It is chippy night tonight, rather than go through the various escape mechanisms I'll take her with me and give her a walk round while the fish are being cooked. They do frozen meat pies too, so they'll do for Wednesday. tomorrow is shopping day so I will have fresh meat to cook
Post by Spardo » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:19 pm
This is brief, because I may not be here much longer, and sad too, as it looks like I can't continue with Enola.
The rest of this post was censored by the forum owner in a fit of pique because of something which happened elsewhere which had nothing to do with Enola or, indeed dogs at all.
In brief I listed the 3 phases of Enola's behaviour since arriving with us and which we thought that we had no choice but to relinquish the foster and send her back to the pension. If the thread had not been locked by the owner our decision 2 days later to reverse that and keep her longer, would have been made clear. Maybe later.
Anyway, back to Enola. When she arrived she was very frightened but within 5 minutes was stuck like glue to my side. At that point we could leave the front gate open and she wouldn't venture through unless I was going there too.
Then a period of increasing and extreme seperation anxiety was demonstrated by her which effectively prohibited me from leaving the premises at all.
Finally, she became interested in the world immediately outside the gates and, with her astonishing climbing ability began scaling the gate and, usually, getting back in again. This, coupled with the excitement of going for a walk which we thought was a danger to our elderly English Setter, Tosca, brought us to the conclusion that she could not stay. The reasons why that decision was reversed are for later.
Post by Veem » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:30 pm
Spardo wrote 'because I may not be here much longer'.
I hope this doesn't mean what it appears to ............
Veem did not get a reply to this innocent question, instead the thread was locked and we were all treated to a diatribe of untruths as to why I would not be allowed to remain. She, and others, who bothered to contact me personally did get to learn the truth and some have ceased to post on the forum themselves.
But, to get back to Enola's story. On the 20th of July 2020 I was asked to collect another Doberman/Beauceron X, Jules, from his owner in the Vendee. Turns out I had previously collected this boy from a refuge near Pamplona in Spain and delivered him to a foster home, which would later become his adoptive home, just back over the border in southern France. That was in January 2017 and he already has a thread on here (Jules, Juglia and Horco - Spanish Refugees) so his ongoing story will be updated there. As it would be necessary to leave Enola with Sharon while I was gone, and as Sharon had room only for one dog, it was decided that Enola should be returned to her and Jules come back to us as a foster.
This was a great sadness for me as I had become very attached to Enola, but the final straw had come when Enola, quite accidentally, raced passed Tosca at high speed and her swinging tail delivered a heavy blow to Tosca's head. I heard the loud impact from 10 metres away and rushed to Tosca who was lying prone on the ground. It took 10 minutes for her to come round but even then was very unsteady on her feet. A week after Enola had been returned, Tosca died after a stroke. She had never been the same after that collision and I think it may well have been the cause. But she was 16 and a half years old and we had had many years of her company so it was time for us to move on.
I had asked PAD for Enola's return, there being no urgent reason for her absence now, because I thought that she and Jules would make an excellent pair. He had ongoing problems of recall in the wild, though not in the garden, and was not a climber nor fixated on me to the extent of distress at my absences. So I thought that they might each learn from the other, Enola encouraging Jules' recall obedience while he might give confidence to Enola during my absences. Sadly, for me, but hopefully not for her, it was not to be as in that week she had been reserved for adoption by another family.
She joined them, and their elderly male Jack Russel on the 29th of August 2020 and, although reports have been sparse, it seems that after a bit of a false start (objecting to being shut in a room with the JR at night) she has settled in well. I will of course update her story whenever I have the information myself.
In the meantime, a couple of pictures of her new life.
This is brief, because I may not be here much longer, and sad too, as it looks like I can't continue with Enola.
The rest of this post was censored by the forum owner in a fit of pique because of something which happened elsewhere which had nothing to do with Enola or, indeed dogs at all.
In brief I listed the 3 phases of Enola's behaviour since arriving with us and which we thought that we had no choice but to relinquish the foster and send her back to the pension. If the thread had not been locked by the owner our decision 2 days later to reverse that and keep her longer, would have been made clear. Maybe later.
Anyway, back to Enola. When she arrived she was very frightened but within 5 minutes was stuck like glue to my side. At that point we could leave the front gate open and she wouldn't venture through unless I was going there too.
Then a period of increasing and extreme seperation anxiety was demonstrated by her which effectively prohibited me from leaving the premises at all.
Finally, she became interested in the world immediately outside the gates and, with her astonishing climbing ability began scaling the gate and, usually, getting back in again. This, coupled with the excitement of going for a walk which we thought was a danger to our elderly English Setter, Tosca, brought us to the conclusion that she could not stay. The reasons why that decision was reversed are for later.
Post by Veem » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:30 pm
Spardo wrote 'because I may not be here much longer'.
I hope this doesn't mean what it appears to ............
Veem did not get a reply to this innocent question, instead the thread was locked and we were all treated to a diatribe of untruths as to why I would not be allowed to remain. She, and others, who bothered to contact me personally did get to learn the truth and some have ceased to post on the forum themselves.
But, to get back to Enola's story. On the 20th of July 2020 I was asked to collect another Doberman/Beauceron X, Jules, from his owner in the Vendee. Turns out I had previously collected this boy from a refuge near Pamplona in Spain and delivered him to a foster home, which would later become his adoptive home, just back over the border in southern France. That was in January 2017 and he already has a thread on here (Jules, Juglia and Horco - Spanish Refugees) so his ongoing story will be updated there. As it would be necessary to leave Enola with Sharon while I was gone, and as Sharon had room only for one dog, it was decided that Enola should be returned to her and Jules come back to us as a foster.
This was a great sadness for me as I had become very attached to Enola, but the final straw had come when Enola, quite accidentally, raced passed Tosca at high speed and her swinging tail delivered a heavy blow to Tosca's head. I heard the loud impact from 10 metres away and rushed to Tosca who was lying prone on the ground. It took 10 minutes for her to come round but even then was very unsteady on her feet. A week after Enola had been returned, Tosca died after a stroke. She had never been the same after that collision and I think it may well have been the cause. But she was 16 and a half years old and we had had many years of her company so it was time for us to move on.
I had asked PAD for Enola's return, there being no urgent reason for her absence now, because I thought that she and Jules would make an excellent pair. He had ongoing problems of recall in the wild, though not in the garden, and was not a climber nor fixated on me to the extent of distress at my absences. So I thought that they might each learn from the other, Enola encouraging Jules' recall obedience while he might give confidence to Enola during my absences. Sadly, for me, but hopefully not for her, it was not to be as in that week she had been reserved for adoption by another family.
She joined them, and their elderly male Jack Russel on the 29th of August 2020 and, although reports have been sparse, it seems that after a bit of a false start (objecting to being shut in a room with the JR at night) she has settled in well. I will of course update her story whenever I have the information myself.
In the meantime, a couple of pictures of her new life.